Onward to Iran. Why? Does anybody care?

Comments

It won't happen for two very good reasons.
a) Bush is lame already and won't want to leave office with a worse legacy than he already has; and
b) Iran has already stated loud and long that any aggressive action by the US against the Islamic Republic will result in missile attacks against Arab oil interests on the western side of the Persian Gulf.

Now, ask yourself. Would Bush would be willing to risk the loss of Arab allies in the Persian Gulf, for the sake of looking as though he was laying the basis for an American ideological victory against Iran, while Iraq literally collapses as he does so? The current Iraqi regime has already voted in council demanding the US lay down a withdrawal timeline. How long can it be, before the Iraqi government turn against America openly and demand withdrawal on the international stage? Whether or not Iran is attacked.....whether or not Iran retaliates against Arab US allies, the future is already written. Iraq and Iran will merge ideologically and/or politically in one form or another, if only to deny terrorist elements from gaining control of the Iraqi collective consciousness. Iran doesn't want the so-called 'al qaeda' ideology gaining a foothold there any more than America does. Iran may well be supplying materiel at the moment in a bid to oust America, but once they're gone, watch the flow dry up like water in sand.

Don't panic about Bush. Be concerned more about the cost of filling your petrol tank between now and the end of the decade3.
i would really like to hope that the American people won't stand for an engagement in another country - arrggh - while i am nervous about Bush, i tend to agree with NDC - and one would hope that Shrub's advisers will step up to the plate and prevent this - cause their advice on the last one went so well...that is, if they haven't already resigned yet

I agree that Iran won't be attacked, but for different reasons than you list. Your reasons require that Bush uses logic and thinks of consequences to his actions before making decisions, when in fact he makes his decisions based on gut feelings and what he thinks God wants him to do.

Despite this, Bush is also a wimp. He attacked Iraq after successfully making an emotional connection in the American people between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein, but the thrall has worn off and the American people are tired of war. With an approval rating in the low 30's for perhaps the longest time in polling history, Bush no longer has the support he had when he went to war in Iraq, and I don't think even "The Decider" could push through all of the opposition there would be in the Pentagon to go to war with Iran.

As for Hillary Clinton, I think it's a stretch to go from "no option can be removed from the table" to "I'm going to nuke Iran." It is not in the America's best interest, let alone the rest of the world's best interest, for an Islamic fundamentalist state to succeed in developing nuclear weapons. To keep that from happening, I would expect some tough rhetoric, but tough rhetoric does not always translate into brutal actions.

I hope you are right. I hope that I am wrong.

As for the cost of petrol, well if the governments and the multimillion dollar corporations who have a vested interest in oil stopped trying to stop research into alternatives, we wouldn't even have to worry about foreign oil.
Yeah we will live in hope. As for his advisers well what can I say ................. they have their own agenda.
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Well, I've been so afraid of this for so long. Our world can't stand too many more knuckleheaded mistakes.
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just re-read my comment -it's a little fuzzy -I meant I've been afraid of having happen what you wrote about - I'm glad you posted it. And the knuckleheaded mistakes, well, you know...
Hi Paxton I am glad that you have come out from under that bed. I hope that you are right and Iran is not in the firing line.

As you may be aware I have responded to your comment left on the video in question. So I will actually agree with you when you said,

As for Hillary Clinton, I think it's a stretch to go from "no option can be removed from the table" to "I'm going to nuke Iran."

I don't think Iran will be nuked, they will use conventional bombs and missiles.

Obviously if a country is developing nuclear weapons then they need to be monitored. But it is still a double standard that Israel can be armed to the hilt in the Middle East, but the other countries in the Middle East cannot be armed to defend themselves. People may say that it is okay for Israel or the US to be overly armed, as they won't use their weapons unless absolutely needed - well in my opinion history says otherwise.

It is a complete double standard that weapons inspectors have restricted access to the likes of the US and Israel, because they are the "good guys" while other countries have to allow open access or action gets taken against them in the form of sanctions or even worse.

I would like to point out one more thing and some will not think it significant, but I do and I have a real issue with it.

That speech made by Hillary was given at AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) and her wording for me is significant. "Regimes pro-terrorist, Anti-American, Anti-Israeli rhetoric only underscores the urgency of our response to the threat we face ................."

Once again this shows to me that US leaders/candidates must keep Israel happy in order to be elected or re-elected. This is not just about America, this is about America's ties to Israel. Israel must be protected by America at all costs, either directly or indirectly through yearly contributions of $2-3 billion/year in military aid.

Also who gets to define a country as a Terrorist country? The word terrorist is rapidly loosing meaning, as it is used way too often and the definition of what defines a terrorist is growing and as a result the net that its definition may trap is widening too.

We will hope Rd that common sense will prevail. I posted this to get people thinking. I honestly hope attacking Iran doesn't occur. I can't believe that it will occur, as you are right we can't afford to make any more mistakes. But I honestly believe that at the moment, anything is possible.
But I honestly believe that at the moment, anything is possible. Yes, that's what has me afraid.
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Christianity and Enlightenment philosophy has left a strange legacy in the west, a strange, odd idealism that refuses to see the world as a dangerous, contradictory place where very little makes any sense and nothing has meaning. As the Enlightenment replaced the Christian religion in Europe, the Christian doctrine of salvation was replaced by a secular faith in Progress.

"Humanism turns to Darwin to support their shaky modern faith faith in progress; but there is no progress in the world he revealed. A truly naturalistic view of the world leaves no room for secular hope."
John Gray
Iran isn't some noble group of indigenous freedom fighters who have thrown off the tyranny of western colonialism to forge their own destinies without foreign interference. These people believe in an ancient warrior code based upon honor and unified and codified by Islam. They are not nationalists, or if they are it is only a temporary strategy -- they are pan Islamic. The Shah was bad enough, but the Revolution was pretty much a jump from the fire pan and into the fire if you were a secular Iranian. The Shah was a despot, but he wasn't a true believer. This hardline "president" they have now is, and he would enjoy seeing the jews pushed into the sea, especially those who couldn't swim.

Which isn't to say i would support any new adventure in Iran. Iraq was idiotic enough.I'm Libertarian enough to believe American intervention, in the very few instances it is actually really necessary, should be about very clear threats to our national security, and then should be short, to the point, and unbelievably violent. But let no one be deceived, the people running Iran are dangerous people, and would use nuclear weapons in the blink of an eye if they could justify the action religiously.

I get a grim laugh outta American politics. The Left and the Right ideologues hate each other so much here in the States that they will whore around with ideologies they hate overseas in order to score points against their political opponents at home.

Evangelical Conservatives support Israel, on of the most leftist socialist states in existence, knowing that as Conservative they despise socialism just on general principle. Liberal Progressives will support Palestinian refugees and Iranian Mullahs who advocate theocracy, the sharia, while knowing that separation of church and state is the cornerstone of any liberal democracy. Politics sure make strange bedfellows eh?

I seriously doubt that Iran will be next any time soon.
I am glad that you can see the irony of the bedfellows that we sleep with at night and the lengths that we will go to just to prove our opponents wrong. We are a F* up bunch! Seriously we all are. Some more than others.

I know that the people running Iran are not to be trusted and I know that the hardship they are inflicting on their people is against Human Rights codes. However at the moment I don't think some Western leaders can be trusted, especially if they really are having their strings pulled by the Israelis. Get Israel out of US politics that's what I say.

I think Bush would be mad to do anything as blatant as bomb Iran, but I don't think it is just up to him. I hope you are correct.

However there is talk around the White House, but maybe that is propaganda being given out by well I don't actually know who, because it can't be by some of the Democrat hopefuls, as they support action of some description against Iran.

Who knows?????????????????????

Does anyone????????????????????

Truth be told, i wouldn't cry many tears if the Jews were to bomb the fuck out of the Iranian nuclear reactor. It worked last time, when Israel bombed the Iraqi reactor in the early 80s, but there is also the fact that things are a bit different now than then, so it might not happen. Altho -- the Israeli military isn't stupid, they understand Iran's rise in influence. Didn't the US supply Israel with those "Bunker Busters," missiles that burrow into the ground and then explode? That reactor is underground... The Arabs and Persians already hate the Jews, but they know what is waiting for them if they take on Israel militarily -- it may be something coming soon, it is that feasible.

The hard truth is whoever controls the Middle East can, to an extent, dictate to a certain point to the world's industrialized nations dependent upon Middle Eastern oil. Numbnuts and the rest of his neo-con buddies have managed to do what every superpower since 1950 has dreamed of doing -- achieving tactical control of the Middle East. Its a classic: Israel on the left flank, Afghanistan on the right, and Iraq up the Middle. In essence, the US has the whole region by the balls, especially when you figure in the Carrier groups off the coasts of the entire region. This is why the US invaded, and this is what Dubbya didn't have the balls to just come out and tell the American public. No wonder France and Germany was pissed -- we ruined some serious economic plans they had for the Middle East (and here people thought they were just morally outraged, which is funny if you think the French can be morally outraged).

I'm pretty sure this will come back and bite America in the ass. But the public will generally approve, unfortunately, as long as gas is still the lowest in the industrialized West, and China has the crude she needs to keep supplying the US with cheap products. It makes me wanna be a Luddite, truth be told, except who wants to go back to outhouses and horse bugys? Looks like my vote in the 08 election will once again be cast in protest for the Libitarian candidate.

Yeah we will live in hope. As for his advisers well what can I say .................

Bush is notorious for not listening to his own advisors, anyway.

I'm reading Gwynne Dyer's latest book and he seems to think that GW has nothing to lose by invading, or at least bombing Iran into the last century.

It makes sense, in a sad, all he has to do is come up with the right excuse (nuclear weapons) and he'll get the usual suspects (Fox News, right wing radio) demanded the head of the President. Of course there will be the establishment of 'democracy' in an already democratic country.

Oh by the way, Iran has the capability to close the transportation of Oil out of the Persian Gulf, just a few well placed missles into the side of a couple of Oil Tankers and we will be paying 10.00 at the pump per gallon.

The US Military is planning, because they have been told to plan. It will be a big mess.
Oh that's right he has a direct line to ............. He doesn't need advisers here on Earth.

Just joking people, just joking!

But it is still a double standard that Israel can be armed to the hilt in the Middle East, but the other countries in the Middle East cannot be armed to defend themselves.

There are two rationales for trying to keep other Middle Eastern countries from getting nukes. One is non-proliferation - meaning that the fewer countries have nukes, the better off we are. Once a country has nukes, the genie is out of the bottle, so to speak, as it is with Pakistan now, so the effort is to keep non-nuclear countries from going nuclear in the first place. The other issue is that neither the U.S. nor Israel, despite having gross political problems, are secular states. The idea of nukes being the hands of a religious fundamentalist state scares the bejeezus out of me, as it should pretty much anyone. To the extent that the U.S. and Israel as well as the other nuclear countries could slide into religious fundamentalism, there is a danger even without proliferation, but allowing states already operating under religious law to develop nukes is almost suicidal.

People may say that it is okay for Israel or the US to be overly armed, as they won't use their weapons unless absolutely needed - well in my opinion history says otherwise.

The U.S. is the only country that has ever used nuclear weapons against another country, and the culture was very different then. Israel is guilty of a lot of dubious practices in war, but the misues of nuclear devices isn't one of them.

That speech made by Hillary was given at AIPAC

If your reason for pointing this out is that Israel has too much influence on American politics, I wholeheartedly agree. Other nations, like China, likewise have powerful lobbying organizations in the U.S., and I think it's disgusting. Politicians who take money from foreign interests should be run out of office, but as things stand now, it's legal.

One of the reasons why Israel is a bit of a sacred cow in the U.S. is the religious right, which identifies defense of Israel as defense of the Holy Land, despite it being a Jewish state. On the other hand, it plays well with religious Jews within the U.S. (in general), many of whom vote democratic. Therefore, a candidate can't really go wrong, either way, by running to the defense of Israel, even when Israel's actions are out of line.

It is a complete double standard that weapons inspectors have restricted access to the likes of the US and Israel, because they are the "good guys" while other countries have to allow open access or action gets taken against them in the form of sanctions or even worse.

I absolutely agree. The U.S. should set the example by allowing nuclear inspectors to see what we're doing. I guess the difference is... what are they going to see? That we're building nuclear weapons? They already know that. Still, it could go a long way to securing the good will of other nations undergoing inspection.

Actually the thought of being a Luddite has some potential, I don't know about it in this case, but I have been thinking about it in regards t