Reuniting the Children of Abraham i.e The Jews, the Christians and the Muslims. Wouldn't it be nice

Comments

More from the proposal, “Whereas; Islam preaches that it and it alone is the true religion”


Of course no other religion has EVER proclaimed such an audacious statement has it.

oh, totally, Chezz - hypocrisy at its best

personally, the passage you quoted about Jesus and the sword scares the crap out of me - precisely because it can be and, of course, has been and will continue to be read and interpreted literally






p.s.

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” -- Blaise Pascal
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Well written, balanced and thorough. A rare trifecta on the internet!

John

"Those who cannot remember their history are doomed to hear the rest of us bitch endlessly about it."

personally, the passage you quoted about Jesus and the sword scares the crap out of me - precisely because it can be and, of course, has been and will continue to be read and interpreted literally

Yes it certainly is an issue because it can be interpreted literally, as can so many other passages of the Holy books. But it helped me get a point across.
You have to take what you can get in this world :)

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” -- Blaise Pascal

Yes there certainly is some truth to that quote. There is a very good reason why the quote has a large degree of truth and that is when they do something with religious conviction, there is little room for doubt in their mind.


Thanks John.

I was reading your quote and I thought I knew what came next, as there is a similar quote about we are doomed to repeat history, and then I kept reading and it totally cracked me up. LOL

Thanks for the laugh.
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Thanks for this enlightening post. If I may, as an American: This is far from a Judeo-Christian society. To me, Judeo-Christendom means implementing the teachings of Moses (peace be upon him) and Jesus (peace be upon him). We all are witnessing what goes on in the US and on a governmental level; I was taught that there is no official state religion. We Americans conveniently boast about how this country was founded on the principles of freedom, liberty, etc... When any objective researcher can see that it was founded on usurption, slavery, and war. I truly think that the neo-cons, as you have so eloquently stated, would love to restrict the teaching & practice of Islam in the US. Why? I really think that they want to instigate a war to feed their glory-hungry, conceited motives. Most Christian and Jewish friends that I meet don't buy into such propaganda. The issue of Islam being spread by the sword is a myth, as I have addressed in the past. I would ask those who disagree to go to Indonesia, the most populous Muslim country & ask them how Islam came to fore in their country. They will say it was through the trade of goods that those people learned about Islam. I will admit that some Muslim groups have abused the faith and waged illegitimate wars. However, I would also challenge people to bring one example of a war fought during the life of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his immaculate family) that was not fought in defense.

I live amongst people of all faiths and although I'm not Christian, I am objective enough to know that the "religious" Right are not very "religious" if they claim to follow Jesus. Religious people are not confrontational. Religious people are not racist. Religious people are thinkers, who have an open mind and do not act based on emotion, rather they act on the basis of peace and betterment for mankind. It seems that after the oppression waged on the Native Americans, then the African Americans, and so on... for a while my country was still held in high regard with people around the world. America held the banner of freedom and human rights. The last 8 years, this administration was destroyed that image. I've seen foreign news, even from Europe, that began to mock the US because we were discussing boycotting the opening ceremonies of the Olympics in Beijing because of China’s human rights abuses while the Bush administration has taken the lead in human rights abuses.

All I can say is that if the Neo-cons get the Presidency this time around, which they very well may get, we as Americans will lose whatever rights we have left. I hope I am wrong, but I can't see the government one day saying, "Ok guys! Guess what? We have no more threats. You are now safe. Here are your rights back. We will make it illegal to spy on you again, no more tapping your phones, no more illegal searches, no more profiling, no more internet spying."

Chezz, as always, thanks for the objective and thought-provoking posts. It's always a great read and it's much appreciated.

Sorry I haven't been able to contribute here, I'm having to manage my time a little better these days. However, here is my answer to your post.

http://judgeright.vox.com/library/post/why-america-is-great.html


[personally, the passage you quoted about Jesus and the sword scares the crap out of me - precisely because it can be and, of course, has been and will continue to be read and interpreted literally]

[Yes it certainly is an issue because it can be interpreted literally, as can so many other passages of the Holy books. But it helped me get a point across.
You have to take what you can get in this world :) ]

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” -- Blaise Pascal


Pascal's quote comes from a time when

What recent actions will you point to that was done in the name of Christianity (outside of the Crusades answering 400 years of Muslim aggression, Inquisition 2000, witch hunts 18) that they have taken up the sword to be compared with Islam?

The issue of Islam being spread by the sword is a myth, as I have addressed in the past

See my post.

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I haven't been very good at keeping up on reading with the 'hood, so I apologize.

This is an excellent post, Chezza! Here, here!
As someone who was educated in Catholic schools, I thank you for giving me a new perspective to think about regarding the verses from Matthew. It was used to scare the crap out of us.
This project is something I'm going to have to look into more, since I'm in the Detroit area. If for nothing else, it may help me to learn and understand more about the other faiths. Which, as you stated, is the key to any sort of real and lasting peace.

Gday Uniter - my friend in peace.

Very well said as always.

Uniter I want you to know if I was in America, I would be by your side and by the sides of every other person in your country who stands for real peace and justice for all, regardless of religion or no religion at all, regardless of race, colour, socio-economic background, sexual orientation and any other label that can be applied to a person.

My eyes have been opened beyond belief in absolute horror at the extent some American Christians are prepared to go in order to spread their message of hate. Yes to any of you who may read this, it is hate you are spreading. We over here in this end of Vox do know the difference between hate and love. You can dress it up any fancy way you may like, but it is still hate.

The latest news from the other camp is now they want to deport any Muslim who does not renounce their religion. Sounds very much like the Spanish Inquisition to me and what the Christians did to the Jews.

Uniter I am with you all the way, and I am not alone in supporting you and your fellow Muslims in peace.

Peace be with you.
Cheryl.

What recent actions will you point to that was done in the name of Christianity (outside of the Crusades answering 400 years of Muslim aggression, Inquisition 2000, witch hunts 18) that they have taken up the sword to be compared with Islam?


Gday Bob

I have had a similar argument on another post some time back. It was one of the most frustrating debates I have ever encountered. During it I lost my cool and I was not proud of the fact. I did apologise and that did fall on deaf ears. However, I learnt something of interest out of the encounter and once again I am confronted with the same issue.

It seems that when a Christian bombs an abortion clinic or kills a staff member, that doesn't count because they are not REAL Christians. It seems that if a gay man is bashed by a Christian due to his Christian beliefs, that doesn't count because he is not REAL Christian. Are you seeing a pattern here ...............

I don't know what all Christians believe when it comes to this issue but I shall give you my opinion for what it is worth. It seems that Christians never kill anybody and if they do they are not REAL Christians, so it doesn't count. If a Muslim Kills, well he is a REAL Muslim so it counts.

Christians since the time of Christianity have killed, but it doesn't count because apparently it was not done in the name of Christianity. Christians have killed off indigenous populations all over the world from Monday through to Saturday and then gone to church on Sunday, as if everything was fine with God.

Christians have owned, beaten, killed and raped slaves and then gone to church on Sunday. Not only did they do such a thing, they used their Bible to defend such actions.

I don't know how many people Christians have killed and I don't know how many people Muslims have killed. I haven't been keeping score like some people seem to be. But I do know this, Christians have killed and they have killed believing that a man of colour is inferior or even a sub-human species and that has come from their Bible.

For example Winston Churchill - a Christian: In 1937 said "I do not admit...that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia...by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place." Thus justifying one of the most brutal genocides and mass displacement of people in history.

And here we have a Christian convicted of killing 1,500 people. A U.N. tribunal has extended the sentence of a priest to life in prison after upholding his war crimes conviction for ordering militiamen to burn and bulldoze a church with 1,500 people inside during the 1994 Rwandan genocide. The tribunal said it convicted Seromba for "his role in the destruction of the church in Nyange Parish, and the consequent death of approximately 1500 Tutsi refugees sheltering inside." Seromba was convicted of leading a militia that attacked the people and poured fuel through the roof of the church, while police threw grenades inside. After failing to kill everybody inside the church, Seromba ordered it to be demolished, the tribunal found. Thousands of Rwandans have turned away from Catholicism, angered and saddened by the complicity of church officials in the genocide. Priests, nuns and followers were implicated in the killings and some churches were sites of notorious massacres.

You see this "Christians not doing it in the name of Christianity clause" doesn't wash with me any more - it is a Christian's get out clause to do whatever they want, so that Christianity washes up squeaky clean.

Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, etc, etc, etc are all killing and it is time they all stopped. This stupid blame game is totally ridiculous.

Anyway that is what I think. I know that it won't change many hard line opinions, I have seen that their minds are well and truly made up.

Thanks for dropping by Bob. Yes I know I got a bit fired up, but I am feeling some what fed up by all of this unnecessary bloodshed and the blame being pushed totally on one sector of the world.



Gday Changa

Thanks for coming by. Don't worry I haven't been around much either, it isn't easy to get around to everyone.

I think I was lucky in the church I was brought up in there wasn't any scare tactics or guilt. I can't believe that passage was actually used to scare you - that is terrible.

If you do manage to look into the project let us know how you get on.

I really do believe just getting to know people is the only way forward, especially at a local level, which then becomes a national level. Restricting legitimate religions being practised peacefully, and threatening deportation is not a solution, but just another problem - I just wish more people could see that.


Thanks for the kind words and moral support. There are people of all faiths and denominations who abuse their respective religions and there are some who truly represent their faiths in a positive, productive way. Instead of looking at themselves and trying to measure up to the truth, they measure the truth by their own vices... Meaning that a person can rationalize and make excuses for all of their actions, however, only a person of courage can admit his or her mistakes and be objective.

To Chezz and the other kind people who have posted: It's people like you who truly make a difference. It's people like you inspire the likes of me to try to be a better person. Thanks for your kind words. The Qur'an states, "A good word is like a blessed tree, it's roots firmly established, and it's branches extend into the heavens." : )

It seems that when a Christian bombs an abortion clinic or kills a staff member, that doesn't count because they are not REAL Christians. It seems that if a gay man is bashed by a Christian due to his Christian beliefs, that doesn't count because he is not REAL Christian. Are you seeing a pattern here ...............

the difference is that the churches do not stand behind these few examples of extremism whereas the mosques do as is proven in my video links. When Christianity has a screwed up church, Christianity attempts to correct it, and then is criticized for doing what the Bible tells us to do in regard to do this. eg. Jeremiah Wright and the Church of Christ. There are not thousands of Christians cheering and defending these terrorist activities, they are rather condemned from the pulpits.

In Islam, even those mosques who would condemn terrorist believe they are justified and excuse their behavior. It is absolutely rediculous to compare those who are using 14 year olds to attack innocent civilians continuously, and launch rocket attacks in Israel on a daily basis with those who exercise restraint in answering those attacks. (1 in a week, 2 in a month) and specifically targeting the guilty parties. You have to opt out of reason to come to your conclusions.

1. The videos you have shown are rare and are Saudi-funded Wahhabi mosques, most Muslims don't accept them as Muslims and I'm sure you know that, so please stop promoting a false image.

2. There are churches who advocate such things. There are churches who advocate violence but they are not seen in the media.

3. I can't figure out why Israel is free from criticism? The have broken more UN security council resolution than all other nations combined! I challenge you to disprove that? That in iteslf invalidates your claim of Israel's innocence. There are many Jews who consider Israel a terrorist state! Mr JudgeBob, why don't you go to Gaza and live there for 1 month? You'll soon be firing rockets as well, either that or you will starve to death. Unbelievable! What a double standard. So if China occupied the US, you would advocate for us to sit idle and not retaliate? The problem is that Palestinians don't have modern weaponry. They should have an Air Force to resist illegal occupation instead of rockets! The problem is that American and British media see the world in the scope of ignorance. Much of the rest of the world condemn Israel and can realize that they are the aggressor. However, because of media indoctrination in the US, people cannot accept that fact. Israel should go back to the '67 borders, have a free referrendum for Palestinian involvement, and I guarantee they would not be attacked. What planet do you live on?

There are churches who advocate such things. There are churches who advocate violence but they are not seen in the media.

That's because there are no Christians slicing the faces off of children with piano wire or dragging the bodies of murdered people through the streets. There is no comparison. There is no reason involved in defending or excusing such behavior.