Today is Sunday - A day of rest and a day of peace.  So no replies to comments today. 

What I will post are two articles displaying interfaith dialogue and how it promotes peace.  Peace to all.

Have a peaceful Sunday,
Chezz

Muslims, Christians Discuss Faith and Reason in Rome

1^st May 2008

VATICAN CITY (Zenit) - Benedict XVI was pleased to see representatives of Catholicism and Islam considering faith and reason in their respective creeds.

A statement from the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue and the Tehran-based Center for Interreligious Dialogue of the Islamic Culture and Relations Organization affirmed the Pope's "great satisfaction" when he received representatives from their groups after the general audience today.

At the end of the meeting the participants agreed that faith and reason are both gifts of God to mankind.

They affirmed that faith and reason do not contradict each other, and that though faith might in some cases be above reason, it is never against it.

"Faith and reason are intrinsically nonviolent," the participants affirmed. "Neither reason nor faith should be used for violence; unfortunately, both of them have been sometimes misused to perpetrate violence. In any case, these events cannot question either reason or faith."

Both sides agreed to cooperate in promoting genuine religiosity, in particular spirituality, to encourage respect for symbols considered to be sacred and to promote moral values.

The participants concluded that Christians and Muslims should go beyond tolerance, accepting differences, while remaining aware of commonalities and thanking God for them. "They are called to mutual respect, thereby condemning derision of religious beliefs," the concluding statement affirmed.

It added: "Generalization should be avoided when speaking of religions. Differences of confessions within Christianity and Islam [and] diversity of historical contexts are important factors to be considered.

"Religious traditions cannot be judged on the basis of a single verse or a passage present in their respective holy books. A holistic vision as well as an adequate hermeneutical method is necessary for a fair understanding of them."

The participants expressed their satisfaction with the level of the presentations and the debates, the concluding statement noted, as well as the open and friendly atmosphere during the colloquium.

 

 

Interfaith dialogue may usher in new era

3^rd May 2008

Muslims, Christians and Jews in America already share a commitment to interfaith work characterized over the years as friendly and respectful with tangible results.

For me, this was best demonstrated during the first few days after the Sept. 11 attacks. Two nights after the tragedy, a lone gunman fired at worshippers leaving the Idriss Mosque near Northgate. Mercifully, nobody was hurt.

The next morning, the shooting was a top national news story — ours was one of the first mosques attacked after Sept. 11.

I arrived at the mosque around 6:30 a.m. to speak to the media. Shortly after 7 a.m., the first of many neighbors and citizens began to arrive with flowers, cards and offers to help secure our place of prayer.

Many of these volunteers were from the local interfaith community. They showed up in force offering to guard the mosque. People from the Church Council of Seattle and the interfaith community wound up standing guard day and night. They camped on our doorstep for the next three weeks to protect the city's largest mosque.

We had, over the years, shared coffee and discussions on religion with many of these faith-loving people. But those three weeks in 2001 ushered in a new chapter for our communities.

In the months that followed, we began to feel special trust in our brethren based on action, not just on words. We discovered that risking one's life for another's safety was a shared belief among faiths.

In early Islamic history, Prophet Muhammad drew up a pluralistic constitution that spelled out the duties of Muslims and people of other faiths in the city of Madinah (near Mecca). The people were to protect each other from threats to their security, uphold moral conduct and deal with each other fairly.

Thereafter, tolerance became the rule for non-Muslims living in Islamic lands. Churches and synagogues were protected by Muslims; non-Muslims were free to practice their own faiths.

I am proud the Seattle area interfaith community came together in those uncertain times; nearly seven years later we are a stronger, more trusting and more peaceful community.

Today, our local mosques are recognized religious institutions, and they've become venues for dialogue among all faiths.

By engaging in interfaith dialogue, world religious leaders have the power to usher in a new era of religious cooperation and understanding. Protecting the right of religious freedom and understanding our differences is precious, because our most universal quality is diversity.

Over time, such interfaith efforts carry us toward the day of peaceful brotherhood and sisterhood among all God's children.

And still the message goes out to young people that who they are is not who they should be, creating self hatred, depression, guilt, shame, isolation and some times leading them to suicide. The cycle continues because we in the Christian community allow it to continue by making LGBT people feel that they have to change to be accepted as a whole person in the eyes of God, the church and the wider community ............

 

 

At least I now don't feel quite so alone as a Christian speaking out, there are others who are speaking out and regrettably they are experiencing the penalty from other Christians for doing so .............

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I would like to say this to finish off.  Yes once again I am putting forward my liberal/leftist and some would say heretical views, but I am afraid that I can't help it, as you see I was indoctrinated at a very early age to have these types of views.  I was taught to love one another, to stand up for those who are persecuted, to help the needy and the disadvantaged, to welcome the outsider.  Yes I was taught about some special man who used to talk to crowds on hillsides and on beaches and any where else people would gather to hear him.  I believed that what I was being taught was the truth and this man was an example of how we should conduct ourselves throughout our lives.  The indoctrination process was very effective, as I still believe it is the right way to live. So if you have a problem with my views, then blame my mother for taking me to church every Sunday from the age of four, because that is where I learnt about some guy called Jesus who told people that the greatest commandment is love and every other commandment hinges on that commandment. I guess I must have missed the Sundays when the congregation was taught to condemn and hate those who are different to ourselves - I am glad I missed those Sundays, I am better for it.

Like I said I am not going to debate this issue because for me there is nothing to debate. 

Oppression and persecution of LGBT people is wrong and that is all there is to it.

 

Just some extra informative videos if any one is interested.

These two videos are worth watching.  There are a number of excellent speakers and one of the speakers actually mentions the 'research' project that was done to see if ex-gay therapy worked and how the ex-gay movement has high jacked and falsified the results.

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The other side of the ex-gay movement; the broken families.  Ex-gay movements quite often tell gay people to marry a heterosexual partner as a part of the changing process from being gay to being 'ex-gay'.  Then eventually the 'ex-gay' person can no longer keep up the pretence of being an ex-gay and feels compelled to be true to themselves and their family and leave their 'heterosexual' marriage.

 

 

 

 

If You Are a spouse dealing with this issue, and need support please visit: www.straightspouse.org

I know Ellen got it right when she said the following:

"A boy has been killed and a number of lives have been ruined. And, somewhere along the line the killer, Brandon, got the message that it's so threatening, so awful, and so horrific that Larry would want to be his Valentine -- that killing Larry seemed to be the right thing to do. And when the message out there is so horrible that to be gay, you can get killed for it, we need to change the message. Larry was not a second-class citizen. I am not a second-class citizen. It's ok if you're gay."

We really do have to wonder where a teenage boy gets the message from that a person should be killed just for being gay.

Sadly one of the places a person learns such a thing is from various religions.  I have seen far too many hateful comments left on blogsites, YouTube and various other websites to ignore the message of hate that is all too often being delivered by people who proclaim to belong to religions of love. 

It is time people started thinking for themselves and stop hiding their bigotry or ignorance behind their so called religious dogma.   If you really do believe you belong to a religion of love then your task is easy, if you really do have love in your heart then there is no way that you can continue to use your religion to persecute people - it is impossible to persecute anyone if you have love in your heart..

Religion was used to justify slavery, justify segregation, justify the oppression of women (still doing so in some religions/doctrines) and it is still being used to justify the oppression of gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals and transgender people and it is wrong.

I am actually past debating this issue, because as far as I am concerned it is insulting and dehumanising to any LGBT person to even have to have this debate.   As Ellen said:  "Larry was not a second-class citizen. I am not a second-class citizen. It's ok if you're gay."

If you proclaim that you are a Christian and you can't see that oppressing and persecuting LGBT people is wrong, then please take the time to look around on the internet as there is plenty of information around to help you read scripture in a new light when it comes to LGBT people and Christianity.

I approached this subject initially with love. I couldn't reconcile what I had been taught in a Christian church about Jesus/love and the persecution of LGBT people by far too many in the Christian church and also that many others in these churches weren't speaking out against this persecution.

What was happening to LGBT was against everything that I thought the Christian church stood for, so I did a lot of reading of the 'clobber' scriptures and their historical context and it was so blatantly obvious to me that these scriptures do not relate to any gay person in a loving committed relationship.

Yes scripture states that promiscuity is a 'sin' but it is just as much a sin if you are heterosexual or gay, there is no distinction. Being gay doesn't automatically make a person promiscuous, that assumption is a false stereotype that seems to once again be portrayed far too often to clobber LGBT people.

If you are not sure where to start looking for alternative information regarding Christianity and homosexuality here are some links to get you started:

 

NO LONGER SILENT – Clergy for Justice

 

Metropolitan Community Churches

 

The Bible and Homosexuality

 

 

Homosexuality: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness

 

 

What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality pdf

A Letter to Louise - A Biblical Affirmation of Homosexuality

If you don't believe there is a message of hate coming from Christianity then just take a look for yourselves.  It is time for people to really speak out about this issue.............

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.Continued in Part 2

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As Catholics were responsible for writing the New Testament (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit), the Catholic Church doesn't "interpret" the Bible. We explain it. Protestants can only "interpret", because they are not the author (guided by the Holy Spirit), and therefore, can only guess at the possible meaning of a chapter, passage or phrase, just as anyone can only guess at any author's intentions in any other book. As the author, the Catholic Church is the only proper authority to consult in matters pertaining to the Bible. (Source)

Interesting statement isn’t it.  Rather pompous actually.  It didn’t come from a mainstream Catholic source so that is refreshing and no I am not about to start bashing the Catholics.  It is a great example of how some people, groups, churches believe that they have the monopoly on Christianity and what they believe is the only way.

Well I have recovered from two weeks spent examining the “Young Earth Creationist Theory”.  I honestly thought they had put me off Christianity for life, but I was wrong.  I woke up this morning and there had been a shift in my thinking.  No I haven’t been struck down by some awe inspiring revelation and have become a born again Christian, I am just me.

I have decided to close the book of the Old Testament as I don’t feel I need it.  I am probably not a typical Christian, and maybe I am a “cafeteria Christian” and I am fine about that.  If a day of judgement comes then it will not be other Christians who judge me, so I am not out to please other Christians and do it their way.

I try to be a good person and I don’t always succeed and that is okay.  When I think of all that should be good, compassionate, loving I have an image in my head and that image is Jesus.  Unfortunately it is white Jesus, but that is because I have seen his image so many times that it is who I see even though I know in reality Jesus would be of Middle Eastern appearance.

From what I can gather from the gospels Jesus did not concern himself with things such as did man live with the dinosaurs and a whole lot of other stuff that people seem to needlessly concern themselves with.  I think the basic teachings of Jesus are love, compassion, acceptance, and looking after the unfortunate in this world.  Trying to do the best that we can, knowing that sometimes we will fall short and it is okay.

Shouldn’t our number one priority in life be to help others, rather than attempt to control them and dictate what they can and can’t do and what they can or can’t think.  Wouldn’t it make sense to lead a good life and hopefully inspire others to lead a good life as well?

I see Jesus as an inspiration for me to be a better person and I believe that is what he would expect of me.  It doesn’t even matter to me that some people don’t even think he existed, as for me it is what he represents that matters.

As far as the Bible is concerned I actually don’t care what some authors say, I really don’t care what Paul has got to say.  I am more interested in what Jesus had to say and I honestly cannot say that he has been portrayed accurately in the Bible, but I know what he represents to me and that is all that counts.  It doesn’t take much to know right from wrong; I don’t need to read every passage of the Bible to know right from wrong and I don’t need Bible passages to justify my actions.  I accept my actions as my actions.

If I see Jesus as love, then it makes sense that only good can come from that.  I don’t need to believe in Genesis to know Jesus is love and it is ridiculous to waste time debating things such as that when there are people in the world who need help. They don’t care if Genesis is true or not, they just need help.

If it is important to you that whatever creation theory supersedes the theory of evolution then fine spend your time, energy and money debating it.  But I will not be, as there are far more important things in life than worrying about where we came from and whether dinosaurs walked on the Earth side by side with men.

The arguments put forward by the “Young Earth Creation Theory” nearly turned me away from Christianity.  When the pathetic, grasping at straws actions of Christianity look stupid in the eyes of others it can only do Christianity harm. 

My last post was about a few things really, it was about what is real news and what is just ‘news’ designed to dumb us down and make us fight over the less important things, while the more important stuff is pushed along and we don’t even realise it.  I consider what is happening over in Burma real news and warrants attention.  I consider the Sally Field Emmy Awards ‘incident’ very incidental. 

 

Another point to the post was to disclose what I consider hypocrisy especially from some so called ‘Christians’.  It seems that the Christianity that I was brought up with and is still a part of me, is not the same Christianity that others consider Christianity. My view on Christianity is one of love, kindness, forgiveness, speaking out against injustice and when speaking out we do so in a reasonably respectful manner. I do not in my opinion see that it is our right to condemn people in God’s name; I believe that is God’s role.   I am not perfect and I do get angry and say things I regret out of anger, but I am generally the first person to admit such a thing and if tackled on it, I will at least consider my stand and refine it and apologise if required and hopefully learn something from it.  That is what life is about learning from mistakes, learning as much as possible and trying to do some good in the world. Christians are not perfect, nor are they meant to be, but I think that they do need to set themselves some reasonable standards of behaviour in this world.

 

I don’t watch the Emmy’s or the Oscars or the Grammy’s none of that stuff interests me, it is so superficial, so I would not have even known about Sally Field’s ‘incident’ at the Emmy’s had I not come across a post in the Catholic Group.  I was curious why the post was in the Catholic Vox group? Yes there was a reference to using God’s name in vain and the fact that Sally Fields had been the “Flying Nun” but the rest of the post was full of spite, anger and in my opinion a post just designed to tear some one apart. I felt disgusted that a post such as this was allowed to be in any Christian Group.  The name of the post was, “I’ve had it with Has-beens!”  I made some comments to the post and I didn’t get very far with my views, but that is fine I don’t expect people to agree with me.  I had hoped that the moderators of the group would have deleted it from the group, but I knew that they wouldn’t due to some in house politics.  I have posted to the group before about Christianity and have posted the same posts to other Christian Groups.  In the other Christian groups I have had some very good discussion and I was grateful and learnt a lot and the whole point was to get some open discussion.  However in the Catholic Vox group, I was virtually told to get out because I didn’t sound like a Catholic.  A Catholic voxer that I know posted to the group and was once told the same thing, “What are you doing here you don’t sound like you are Catholic?” There was also a reference that the Voxer did not use the word God enough.”

 

So my post from yesterday was partly in response to the post at the Catholic Vox group and I figured that if a hate filled piece (in my opinion) was allowed in the Catholic Vox group then why shouldn’t mine.  I had a feeling that it may get thrown out of the group, but in my opinion if my post was to be thrown out, then so should the other post.  Yes I was testing them, guilty as charged but I just wanted to test how hypocritical the group moderators were.  Well I came online this morning and guess what my post has been removed from the Catholic Vox Group and the other post titled, “I’ve had it with Has-beens!” is of course still there.

 

If that is the type of image that they wish to portray then so be it, not my problem but I really think it is a poor reflection on Christianity that such a piece is allowed to demonstrate to the world what Christianity is all about.  Atheists would love the post in question as it would give them so much material to work with.

 

If the writer of the post wants to do a character assassination on Sally Field, then fine it is none of my business.

 

If the writer wants to chastise Sally for saying the G-Bomb well I haven’t got a problem with that either, but a character assassination is not required to do such a thing and that is what I object to and that is why I do not believe the post should have been in the group.  If the post was not a character assassination then I would not have a problem with it being in the Catholic Vox group if its sole purpose was to chastise Sally about her use of the G-Bomb and how it offended the writer because he/she was a Catholic Christian.

 

I believe that Christians have a reputation to uphold and this sort of article just makes me sad.  But I could be wrong, may be I have the wrong idea about Christianity and that also makes me sad, but I don’t think I have got the wrong idea regarding many Christians.

The Catholic Vox group will be happy to learn that I shall be withdrawing my membership shortly after posting this post.

Have a safe and happy day to all :)

This entry started out as a reply to a comment but I have decided to post it as an entry to gain more attention to the issue of Peace.

Yes Peter I absolutely agree with you.  I have been saying that it is time that what I would believe are the true followers of Jesus Christ start to say the following in regards to the war and oppression in the Middle East,

My hope is that when people such as Christians and other religious people and atheists do a search for a group that matches their belief system that they come across our group United for Peace and consider joining. 

I believe that there are many peaceful Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Atheists and all of the other groups I have missed and it is these people that need to mobilise.

I was raised as a Christian but I do not consider myself to be a Christian, I admire the teachings of Jesus and so I respect all Christians who try and live by his teachings of love for all mankind.  I relate very strongly to the Buddha's philosophy as I believe it has a lot to offer the world when it comes to matters of peace.  I am not interested in getting bogged down with religious dogma but prefer to follow the various teachings as I feel they were meant to be followed. So I do not belong to a religion as such, I prefer to embrace the worthwhile teachings from the various sources**. I am not very well versed in the other mainstream religions and non-religions of the world, but I am prepared to learn about them and understand them and that is why I have joined their/your group(s) at VOX.

So please don't stone me or belittle me for posting this article to your group - I come in peace  :-)

For me it really doesn't matter what we believe as long as we all have the goal of accepting each other and we aim to live peacefully side by side.

We cannot dismiss the benefits of religion because of the extremists in the world.  We must remember that Gandhi based his campaigns of non-violence on the teachings of various religions and Martin Luther King Jr based his non-violence campaigns on the teachings of Jesus.  I cannot ignore the campaigns of non-violence by Buddhists such as H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama (China/Tibet and the world) and Thich Nhat Hanh (Vietnam and the world).  It is a shame that our Australian leaders won't have a meeting with the Dalai Lama when he is in this country over the next few weeks - maybe they will change their minds as it will be a great opportunity missed if they don't meet with him.

I plan to write an entry on the teachings of Jesus and how wrong he would see this war in Iraq, based on his teachings - from the Bible.

I would love to hear from Muslims and get their perspective as an everyday Muslim what their teachings really say about love and killing.  I would love to hear it from them, as I am sick of hearing it from the extremists.  The same goes for all of the other religions, I don't want to hear it from the extremists in your religion I want to hear the views on love and war from the everyday rank and file members - the people who count.

At the moment we really do need to hear from the Christians, Muslims and Jewish people as the wars in the Middle East do concern these religions the most.  The Middle East issues affect us all but these are the religions that need to start voicing some common sense.  For the benefits of their religion they must make their voices heard if they are really for peace in this world.

Given the interest in a recent blog entry of mine about a television series titled "The Root of All Evil?" and the concerns raised about where this world is headed as far as world peace is concerned, I have just formed a new group called United for Peace

Anyone who wants a world of peace is welcome to contribute.

People of all races, cultures, religious and non religious backgrounds must learn to accept each other and live with one another for lasting peace to be achieved - This group is designed to encourage constructive interaction between all of the different groups throughout the world and be: United for Peace.

There are some guidelines to follow when contributing to this group. 

Contributions should be without anger and blame.  Peace cannot be achieved if we have anger in our hearts and continue to place blame on others.

However please by all means express your opinions and concerns.  Just follow the simple guidelines: Criticise the action, not the perpetrator; criticise the argument and not the person making the argument and criticise the policy and not the politician. As Gandhi said,

"Hate the sin and love the sinner."

United for Peace is based on the simple notion that lasting peace begins in the hearts and minds of us all. It is simple mathematics to realise that peace in our thoughts, prayers and meditations translates into peace in the world. While there is still anger and hate within and between us, then somewhere it will have to be vented, and so there is conflict and war.

By taking personal responsibility for war we stop laying blame and getting angry (contributing to more war!) and accept that we are all accountable to start changing the world consciousness beginning with ourselves. Each peaceful action makes a lasting change for peace in the world, and eventually government leaders and lasting political change will follow.  -  World  Peace

Some final words of wisdom:

"It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance." - Robert F Kennedy

"If there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person.
If there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house.
If there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation.
If there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world." - Ancient Chinese Proverb

"If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito." - Dalai Lama

"I was once asked why I don't participate in anti-war demonstrations. I said that I will never do that, but as soon as you have a pro-peace rally, I'll be there." – Mother Teresa.

 

"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools." – Martin Luther King Jr.

"Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love." – Martin Luther King Jr.