Today is Sunday - A day of rest and a day of peace.  So no replies to comments today. 

What I will post are two articles displaying interfaith dialogue and how it promotes peace.  Peace to all.

Have a peaceful Sunday,
Chezz

Muslims, Christians Discuss Faith and Reason in Rome

1^st May 2008

VATICAN CITY (Zenit) - Benedict XVI was pleased to see representatives of Catholicism and Islam considering faith and reason in their respective creeds.

A statement from the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue and the Tehran-based Center for Interreligious Dialogue of the Islamic Culture and Relations Organization affirmed the Pope's "great satisfaction" when he received representatives from their groups after the general audience today.

At the end of the meeting the participants agreed that faith and reason are both gifts of God to mankind.

They affirmed that faith and reason do not contradict each other, and that though faith might in some cases be above reason, it is never against it.

"Faith and reason are intrinsically nonviolent," the participants affirmed. "Neither reason nor faith should be used for violence; unfortunately, both of them have been sometimes misused to perpetrate violence. In any case, these events cannot question either reason or faith."

Both sides agreed to cooperate in promoting genuine religiosity, in particular spirituality, to encourage respect for symbols considered to be sacred and to promote moral values.

The participants concluded that Christians and Muslims should go beyond tolerance, accepting differences, while remaining aware of commonalities and thanking God for them. "They are called to mutual respect, thereby condemning derision of religious beliefs," the concluding statement affirmed.

It added: "Generalization should be avoided when speaking of religions. Differences of confessions within Christianity and Islam [and] diversity of historical contexts are important factors to be considered.

"Religious traditions cannot be judged on the basis of a single verse or a passage present in their respective holy books. A holistic vision as well as an adequate hermeneutical method is necessary for a fair understanding of them."

The participants expressed their satisfaction with the level of the presentations and the debates, the concluding statement noted, as well as the open and friendly atmosphere during the colloquium.

 

 

Interfaith dialogue may usher in new era

3^rd May 2008

Muslims, Christians and Jews in America already share a commitment to interfaith work characterized over the years as friendly and respectful with tangible results.

For me, this was best demonstrated during the first few days after the Sept. 11 attacks. Two nights after the tragedy, a lone gunman fired at worshippers leaving the Idriss Mosque near Northgate. Mercifully, nobody was hurt.

The next morning, the shooting was a top national news story — ours was one of the first mosques attacked after Sept. 11.

I arrived at the mosque around 6:30 a.m. to speak to the media. Shortly after 7 a.m., the first of many neighbors and citizens began to arrive with flowers, cards and offers to help secure our place of prayer.

Many of these volunteers were from the local interfaith community. They showed up in force offering to guard the mosque. People from the Church Council of Seattle and the interfaith community wound up standing guard day and night. They camped on our doorstep for the next three weeks to protect the city's largest mosque.

We had, over the years, shared coffee and discussions on religion with many of these faith-loving people. But those three weeks in 2001 ushered in a new chapter for our communities.

In the months that followed, we began to feel special trust in our brethren based on action, not just on words. We discovered that risking one's life for another's safety was a shared belief among faiths.

In early Islamic history, Prophet Muhammad drew up a pluralistic constitution that spelled out the duties of Muslims and people of other faiths in the city of Madinah (near Mecca). The people were to protect each other from threats to their security, uphold moral conduct and deal with each other fairly.

Thereafter, tolerance became the rule for non-Muslims living in Islamic lands. Churches and synagogues were protected by Muslims; non-Muslims were free to practice their own faiths.

I am proud the Seattle area interfaith community came together in those uncertain times; nearly seven years later we are a stronger, more trusting and more peaceful community.

Today, our local mosques are recognized religious institutions, and they've become venues for dialogue among all faiths.

By engaging in interfaith dialogue, world religious leaders have the power to usher in a new era of religious cooperation and understanding. Protecting the right of religious freedom and understanding our differences is precious, because our most universal quality is diversity.

Over time, such interfaith efforts carry us toward the day of peaceful brotherhood and sisterhood among all God's children.

Imagine a world in which the Children of Abraham were reunited.  It would have to be a much nicer and safer place than what it is at the moment.  All of the world’s problems would not be solved, but we would be well on the way.

 

Regrettably we have a long way to go before this will happen.  It could happen; there is no doubt about it.  Unfortunately we have too many misguided people in the world at the moment who seem to believe fighting is the complete answer to peace. Others seem to believe another solution is to alienate people and restrict their freedoms. To me there seems to be a lot of counter productive solutions to peace.

 

Here is an example and this is from people who claim that their religion is one of love and they make claims such as these in regards to what a real Christian is:

"They truly follow the tenets of Jesus. Things like "love your neighbor", "pray for them that despise you and say all manner of evil against you", "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", "if someone slaps you on the left cheek, turn your right cheek to him, also" and "if someone takes your cloak, give to him your tunic, also". Those are Jesus' words, and that is a religion full of love for your fellow man."

Currently here at Vox (thanks to paikea for highlighting this and posting a very interesting article titled: Muslim True/False) there is a petition being promoted to put forward a proposed US Constitutional Amendment.  This amendment would include that: 

 

“The preaching of Islam in Mosques, Schools, and other venues is prohibited. The subject of Islam may be taught in a post high school academic environment provided that instruction include discussion of Islam’s history of violence, conquest, and its ongoing war on democratic and other non-Islamic values.”

 

Yes it does seem rather harsh.

 

The proposal also states:

“Whereas; the United States of America was founded on the ideals of individual rights, including the individual right to practice one’s religion of choice, or no religion, and that there would be no compulsion of religion, nor state sanctioned religion, nor a ‘religious test’ for participation in the body politic;

Whereas; Islam includes a complete political and social structure, encompassed by its religious law, Sharia, that supercedes any civil law and that Islam mandates that no secular or democratic institutions are to be superior to Islamic law;”

From what I can gather about the United States the first paragraph is correct, unless you listen to some of the people from America’s Religious Right and then it seems they would dearly love to change this paragraph.  We have all heard about the pillars of the 10 Commandments being set up in public areas on American soil and the big kerfufel that it has caused.  If there is no state sanctioned religion, then there should not be the establishment of such a practice.   But listen further to a statement from someone who stated they would sign this petition, but had doubts of its effectiveness due to the wording of the petition:

“I think a better possibility to enact an Amendment to the Constitution declaring America a nation with a Judeo-Christian heritage without establishing any particular Jewish sect (Orthodox, Conservative or ) or Christian Denomination (Variations of Protestantism, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox etc.) as a State religion.  This would simultaneously deal with Secular Humanism war on Christianity and radical Islam.”

Now I could be totally wrong, but this statement doesn’t exactly match up with the statement:

“Whereas; the United States of America was founded on the ideals of individual rights, including the individual right to practice one’s religion of choice, or no religion, and that there would be no compulsion of religion, nor state sanctioned religion, nor a ‘religious test’ for participation in the body politic”

Although the comment doesn’t say there should be an official state religion, it does indicate there is intent to restrict freedom of religion and non-religion.   Let’s face it if it was possible, the Religious Right would declare the US a Christian nation in an instant if it had the power. 

This brings me to the next paragraph I included above,

Whereas; Islam includes a complete political and social structure, encompassed by its religious law, Sharia, that supercedes any civil law and that Islam mandates that no secular or democratic institutions are to be superior to Islamic law;”

This may or may not be the case in regards to Islam, however when it come to the Religious Right in the US, what sort of laws would we expect to see in the US.  The answer is simple we would see strict laws based on their version of Christianity.  To illustrate my point I only need to draw your attention to an article such as this, “God’s Choice for President”.  So who would the Religious Right’s God choose to be the next US President, well naturally McCain and why would God do such a thing, only two factors come to mind apparently, the issue of abortion and gay rights – yes that is it, I kid you not!  It seems God is not concerned about social justice issues, healthcare, poverty, the environment, racial harmony, equal rights and the endless list of things I thought were major concerns to a “Christian” God.

The Religious Right also seems to need to make up its mind.  I have noticed that when it suits, Christianity is described as a religion of peace and then they will do a back flip and bash the more socially conscious Christians over the head with their Bibles and say, "Christianity is not a religion of peace, because Jesus didn’t come to bring peace," and they will then go on and quote the following Bible passage:

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)

It is an interesting passage.  I actually like this passage, for me it means Jesus came here to shake the people up and get them thinking and get them out of their selfish and corrupt ways.  The church at the time needed a good kick in the pants. The people needed to start doing good work to help others and to become more loving and compassionate.  That at least is partly the meaning of the passage if it is read in conjunction with the other messages Jesus conveyed throughout the NT.  To me the sword is not to be taken literally.  However, I have heard Christians use that “sword” to defend the right to carry a gun, go to war, use violence, justify capital punishment, and a host of other violent acts. 

It is interesting how Islam is always portrayed as being spread by the sword, and yet here we have a quote in the Christian Bible and it is Jesus who is carrying a sword.  So it actually makes sense that when this passage is taken literally it has been used to spread the religion of Christianity throughout the world.  At present Islam is conveniently portrayed by Christians as being spread by the sword, and by making that claim they are inferring that Christianity has always been spread peacefully - I guess by some gentle process of osmosis.  But this is not true, the correct history of the world indicates otherwise.   Christianity has been spread throughout the world by the sword, by the gun, by oppressive tactics and  by an endless array of violent actions. In short, Christianity was spread by empire building throughout the world. 

I can now refer back to this quote mentioned earlier,

“I think a better possibility to enact an Amendment to the Constitution declaring America a nation with a Judeo-Christian heritage ............. ..... ....... ......"

There is an obvious flaw in this statement, an obvious omission.   Who were the people here before  the Judeo-Christian heritage was forced upon them?  Of course it was the Native Americans, who had their own heritage and their own beliefs systems. Were the Native Americans treated well by their Judeo-Christian conquerors?  No, in the main history also proves this to be incorrect.  

I am sure that if the Jews, the Moors, the “witches” and the “sodomites” could have put together a petition outlawing Christianity during the Spanish Inquisition they would have (So there is no bias here are two references one a Jewish perspective another a Catholic perspective).  I have heard modern day Orthodox Jews speaking of Christianity with utter disdain, and if you watch the video, “The Hidden Story of Jesus” which I have included below, you will actually witness how much disdain they have for Christianity and the wrongs they feel Christianity has done to them.

More from the proposal, “Whereas; Islam preaches that it and it alone is the true religion”

Of course no other religion has EVER proclaimed such an audacious statement has it.  I have been told many times that Christianity is the one true religion, and not only the Religious Right makes that claim.  In fact the scripture I quoted above from Matthew essentially says that Jesus is the ONLY way, and if you deviate away from Jesus then your life will be lost.  They are powerful words, powerful enough to make parents scared that their children's lives will be lost if they deviate away from the path, and that kind of "terror" can make people do terrible things to other people if they believe another is leading their child astray. It explains why so many Christian parents are devastated to find out their child is gay, for they believe their child is forever forsaken.

I would say that the majority of people belonging to all religions will make similar claims in regards to their religion being the one true way.  It stands to reason; otherwise they wouldn’t practice the religion.  But it shouldn't mean we shouldn't be able to get along.

Now for me the past is the past.  Terrible things have been done throughout history in the name of religion and also in the name of various political ideologies.  I have only brought up the past because some seem to like to bring up the past as a weapon against various religions, and my point is to say that no religion has an innocent past.  What matters to me is the present and the future, so I would love to move on.

This is my opinion for what it is worth.  I believe the Muslims who are being violent and intolerant in the name of Islam are misguided, as were the Christians/Jews/Hindus and other belief systems of the past who were violent and as are the Christians/Jews/Hindus and other belief systems who are violent or intolerant in the present.

This now brings me to the title of this post and that is, "Reuniting the Children of Abraham". This documentary is an interesting look at how it is possible to cross the barriers which impede peace on a personal level.  Petitions aimed at oppressing a whole people are not the answer to achieve peace in a country; projects such as these which aim to break down personal barriers to peace are the answer.  It is difficult to wage war against a friend or some one you know and respect.

“Abraham, of the Old Testament, was the founding patriarch of a new, monotheistic faith, which included Jews and later Christians and Muslims.  One of his two sons is historically tied to the founding of Judaism, the other to the founding of Islam.

The Children of Abraham Project, which is an effort by individuals and interfaith organizations in the Detroit Metro area, to educate Jews, Christians and Muslims as to their common ancestry, and encourages them to work together for tolerance, peace and civic betterment.  The process involves watching a play in which teenage actors, some who helped write the play, act out scenes from the Biblical story.  This is interspersed with contemporary accounts of religious and ethnic prejudice based on personal recollections.  The play has allowed audiences to speak freely about their fears and prejudices and to walk in another's shoes. 

The Project is a powerful experience that gives hope to the idea of these three religions being able to find their common heritage as a reason for mutual religious respect and spiritual healing in the future.”

 

.

.

.

Another interesting documentary is The Hidden Story of Jesus.  What really struck me about this documentary was by taking Jesus as an example; it was possible to see how much most of the religions have in common.  I believe looking for what we have in common, instead of looking at our differences; will in fact help us to become more closely connected as a society, and more accepting of our differences.

This is not a documentary for Christians to be afraid of, as I do not believe it would diminish your faith in anyway. 

For me personally it actually enhanced my faith in humanity.

 

 

 

 

And still the message goes out to young people that who they are is not who they should be, creating self hatred, depression, guilt, shame, isolation and some times leading them to suicide. The cycle continues because we in the Christian community allow it to continue by making LGBT people feel that they have to change to be accepted as a whole person in the eyes of God, the church and the wider community ............

 

 

At least I now don't feel quite so alone as a Christian speaking out, there are others who are speaking out and regrettably they are experiencing the penalty from other Christians for doing so .............

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I would like to say this to finish off.  Yes once again I am putting forward my liberal/leftist and some would say heretical views, but I am afraid that I can't help it, as you see I was indoctrinated at a very early age to have these types of views.  I was taught to love one another, to stand up for those who are persecuted, to help the needy and the disadvantaged, to welcome the outsider.  Yes I was taught about some special man who used to talk to crowds on hillsides and on beaches and any where else people would gather to hear him.  I believed that what I was being taught was the truth and this man was an example of how we should conduct ourselves throughout our lives.  The indoctrination process was very effective, as I still believe it is the right way to live. So if you have a problem with my views, then blame my mother for taking me to church every Sunday from the age of four, because that is where I learnt about some guy called Jesus who told people that the greatest commandment is love and every other commandment hinges on that commandment. I guess I must have missed the Sundays when the congregation was taught to condemn and hate those who are different to ourselves - I am glad I missed those Sundays, I am better for it.

Like I said I am not going to debate this issue because for me there is nothing to debate. 

Oppression and persecution of LGBT people is wrong and that is all there is to it.

 

Just some extra informative videos if any one is interested.

These two videos are worth watching.  There are a number of excellent speakers and one of the speakers actually mentions the 'research' project that was done to see if ex-gay therapy worked and how the ex-gay movement has high jacked and falsified the results.

.
.

 

 

 

 

 

The other side of the ex-gay movement; the broken families.  Ex-gay movements quite often tell gay people to marry a heterosexual partner as a part of the changing process from being gay to being 'ex-gay'.  Then eventually the 'ex-gay' person can no longer keep up the pretence of being an ex-gay and feels compelled to be true to themselves and their family and leave their 'heterosexual' marriage.

 

 

 

 

If You Are a spouse dealing with this issue, and need support please visit: www.straightspouse.org

I know Ellen got it right when she said the following:

"A boy has been killed and a number of lives have been ruined. And, somewhere along the line the killer, Brandon, got the message that it's so threatening, so awful, and so horrific that Larry would want to be his Valentine -- that killing Larry seemed to be the right thing to do. And when the message out there is so horrible that to be gay, you can get killed for it, we need to change the message. Larry was not a second-class citizen. I am not a second-class citizen. It's ok if you're gay."

We really do have to wonder where a teenage boy gets the message from that a person should be killed just for being gay.

Sadly one of the places a person learns such a thing is from various religions.  I have seen far too many hateful comments left on blogsites, YouTube and various other websites to ignore the message of hate that is all too often being delivered by people who proclaim to belong to religions of love. 

It is time people started thinking for themselves and stop hiding their bigotry or ignorance behind their so called religious dogma.   If you really do believe you belong to a religion of love then your task is easy, if you really do have love in your heart then there is no way that you can continue to use your religion to persecute people - it is impossible to persecute anyone if you have love in your heart..

Religion was used to justify slavery, justify segregation, justify the oppression of women (still doing so in some religions/doctrines) and it is still being used to justify the oppression of gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals and transgender people and it is wrong.

I am actually past debating this issue, because as far as I am concerned it is insulting and dehumanising to any LGBT person to even have to have this debate.   As Ellen said:  "Larry was not a second-class citizen. I am not a second-class citizen. It's ok if you're gay."

If you proclaim that you are a Christian and you can't see that oppressing and persecuting LGBT people is wrong, then please take the time to look around on the internet as there is plenty of information around to help you read scripture in a new light when it comes to LGBT people and Christianity.

I approached this subject initially with love. I couldn't reconcile what I had been taught in a Christian church about Jesus/love and the persecution of LGBT people by far too many in the Christian church and also that many others in these churches weren't speaking out against this persecution.

What was happening to LGBT was against everything that I thought the Christian church stood for, so I did a lot of reading of the 'clobber' scriptures and their historical context and it was so blatantly obvious to me that these scriptures do not relate to any gay person in a loving committed relationship.

Yes scripture states that promiscuity is a 'sin' but it is just as much a sin if you are heterosexual or gay, there is no distinction. Being gay doesn't automatically make a person promiscuous, that assumption is a false stereotype that seems to once again be portrayed far too often to clobber LGBT people.

If you are not sure where to start looking for alternative information regarding Christianity and homosexuality here are some links to get you started:

 

NO LONGER SILENT – Clergy for Justice

 

Metropolitan Community Churches

 

The Bible and Homosexuality

 

 

Homosexuality: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness

 

 

What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality pdf

A Letter to Louise - A Biblical Affirmation of Homosexuality

If you don't believe there is a message of hate coming from Christianity then just take a look for yourselves.  It is time for people to really speak out about this issue.............

.

.

.

.

 .

.

.

.Continued in Part 2

.

One of the best discussions in terms of Christianity and being gay I have heard was in the following discussion which included Bishop Gene Robinson.

Gays and God

Gene Robinson, Episcopal bishop
Steven Greenberg, rabbi
Zina Jacque, Baptist minister
Cheryl Giles, moderator
Diane Moore, moderator

Most LGBT feel alienated from the religions of their childhood. Either having abandoned their birthright traditions, or feeling the need to challenge those traditions, they are in a peculiar position among people of faith.

Will America's churches, synagogues, and other traditional religious institutions ever accept homosexuality?

Religious writings have been used as the word of God and a political tool. What role will they play in this election year? The panelists here explore these and other issues relating to what it means to be moral, sexual humans in our society.

This panel discussion is presented by the Harvard Institute of Politics.

---

What really impressed me above all else was their sense of humanity and humility which seems to be lacking when I listen to many Christians.  For me these three gay religious teachers gave a real sense of what Christianity and Judaism should be about, and that is love, acceptance and compassion.  In my opinion if there were more religious people such as these either gay or straight, the world would be a much better place.

On another note I have mentioned this organisation before but I think it is worth mentioning again.

Fortunate Families

Grounded in Catholic tradition, Fortunate Families ministers primarily with Catholic parents of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender daughters and sons—but welcomes families of all faiths. When parents explore and value their personal stories, they are empowered to share that story with their family circle, their faith community and the larger society. 

Parents just learning that a son is gay or a daughter is lesbian will find resources—including the Fortunate Families Newsletter—and support to help them understand, accept, and affirm their child who is a child of God. Catholic parents will find information regarding Church teaching and pastoral responses to the gay or lesbian child. Parents of lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender daughters and gay sons who yearn for a more welcoming church and society will find strategies for making their faith communities and their world safer and more just for their children.

Grounded in Catholic tradition, Fortunate Families welcomes families of all faiths.

At the moment this group is releasing some fantastic information leaflets on a weekly basis titled:

Let’s Talk About Homosexuality I have currently read the first 4 weeks and I was impressed with the series so far, hopefully the remaining modules will be just as interesting and impressive.

Let’s Talk About Homosexuality

A Catholic conversation for:

• Parents of gay and lesbian children: parents still in the closet, alone with their secret; parents out of the closet, struggling with their questions, their fears, their faith.

• Parents of young children: moms and dads seeking information and insight for their own parenting role as teacher and counselor.

• Family members who may be struggling to deal with the hurtful stereotypes that exist within both society and their Church.

• Gay and lesbian people who may be searching for some sign of understanding from their Church.

• Anyone who is curious about homosexuality and wanting to learn more.
 

The series, originally created as an adult education program and carried for 14 weeks on the website of a Midwest Catholic parish, is intended for anyone interested in learning more about homosexuality and the pastoral challenges it raises for Catholics.  Click to read how and why Jerry Furlong, parent of a gay child, came to develop the series.

A new segment in the series will be posted on seven consecutive Mondays following the January 7th introduction. After the complete series has been posted, it will be archived for future access.