Bishop Gene Robinson: "Religion in general still presents the greatest obstacles we face in full equality," he said. "Ninety-five percent of the oppression that we know in our lives comes from the religious community."

"A lot of New Hampshire families have come to know people in their families who are gay, co-workers, former classmates and that's what really made this difference.

We are no longer talking about an issue," he said. "We are talking about people."

ONCORD, N.H. (AP) — It was tough enough to get New Hampshire's lawmakers and governor to approve gay marriage, but Episcopal Bishop V. Gene Robinson says there's an even tougher job ahead: getting churches to fully embrace gay marriage and gay people.

"What we have to work against is countless centuries of tradition which has judged homosexual people to be an abomination before God," said Robinson, the Episcopal church's only openly gay bishop.

Robinson sat in the front row of the gallery in the House of Representatives on Wednesday, hands clasped at times, praying for lawmakers to push a little green button that indicates a "yes" vote.

In the end, there were 198 green lights to legalize gay marriage, and 176 red ones.

The gallery erupted and Robinson was caught up in a sea of hugs, which continued as he walked through the Statehouse to a rally outside.

"There are a lot of people standing here who, when we grew up, could not have imagined this," Robinson said. "You can't imagine something that is simply impossible. It's happened, in our lifetimes."

But Robinson, who was elected bishop six years ago this month, said more must happen to change attitudes in churches.

"The law says that every church gets to choose what it will do," he said, meaning they can refuse to perform gay marriages. Robinson approves, saying the law protects religious freedom.

"But now we need to be working in our religious institutions to come to this new place about what is God's will about this," Robinson said. "I think a close look at that will reveal God loves all of God's children, not just certain ones, and that's the harder work."

The law spells out that churches, their employees and religious groups cannot be forced to officiate at gay marriages or provide other services.

They were key elements pushed by Gov. John Lynch to win his approval.

But gay marriage opponents said the constitution already provides those protections to religious institutions. They argued the protections should be expanded to cover commercial vendors, such as photographers and caterers. That drew fire from gay marriage supporters who said the state's anti-discrimination laws would be unraveled by allowing people to discriminate at will.

The law goes into effect in January.

In a speech in Washington last month, Robinson said despite recent momentum, the struggle continues for gay rights supporters in churches.

"Religion in general still presents the greatest obstacles we face in full equality," he said. "Ninety-five percent of the oppression that we know in our lives comes from the religious community."

Robinson's election in 2003 caused a rift in the global Anglican Communion, intensifying a long-running debate over what Anglicans should believe about salvation, sexuality and other issues. The Episcopal Church, the Anglican body in the U.S., is more liberal than growing Anglican churches in Africa and elsewhere.

Meeting in Egypt in February, Anglican leaders requested their churches continue a temporary ban — enacted after Robinson's election — on consecrating openly gay bishops and writing prayers for gay unions.

New Hampshire legalized civil unions for gay couples last year, but in a pastoral letter, Robinson told Episcopal clergy he would prefer they not preside at civil unions, instead, presiding over a blessing, afterward.

"It is my hope that we will be able to provide for the private, pastoral needs of the faithful people entrusted to our care, while causing a minimum of further furor in the Church," he wrote in February, 2008, a month after civil unions became legal in the state.

But he said he would be "personally and institutionally supportive" of clergy who did not want to bless a civil union.

Robinson and his partner of 20 years were united in a civil union a year ago this month.

He said legislators recognized that gay marriage is more than a policy question and hopes churches will do the same.

"A lot of New Hampshire families have come to know people in their families who are gay, co-workers, former classmates and that's what really made this difference. We are no longer talking about an issue," he said. "We are talking about people."

The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC) has awarded its 2009 Felipa de Souza Award to the Lebanese group Helem.

IGLHRC’s Felipa Award recognises the courage and effectiveness of groups or leaders dedicated to improving the human rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and other individuals stigmatised and abused because of their sexuality or HIV status.

Helem is the first organisation in the Arab world to set up a gay and lesbian community centre. Helem’s work has consistently broken new ground in a country that criminalises homosexuality and where violence and abuse are persistent problems.

IGLHRC’s Executive Director Paula Ettelbrick said, “Helem works in very challenging circumstances to make a very real difference to the lives of countless LGBTI people in the Middle East and beyond. We applaud their courage and commitment to human rights for all.”

Helem was founded in 2004 and is based in Beirut, with support chapters in Australia, France, Canada and the United States. The organisation’s work ranges from advocacy to public education. A major focus of its human rights advocacy work revolves around eradicating Article 534 of the Lebanese Penal Code, which is used to criminalise homosexuality.

Congratulations to a most deserving and courageous organisation.

BEIRUT: A Lebanese gay rights organization will on Monday be presented with a prestigious international award in the United States in recognition of its work. Helem, an Arabic acronym of "Lebanese Protection for Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals and Transgenders" but also meaning 'dream,' is a Beirut-based non-governmental organization that has worked since 2004 to promote the legal, social and cultural rights of the above individuals. Helem was the first organization of its kind in the Middle East, though it has since been joined by ASWAT (Voices), an organization for Palestinian lesbians, and the Iranian Queer Railroad.

The organization was selected by The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC) as the 2009 recipient of the Felipa de Souza Award in recognition of Helem's work to improve the human rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex (LGBTI) and others who face discrimination because of their sexuality or HIV positive status. Announcing the award, IGLHRC said: "The first organization in the Arab world to set up a gay and lesbian community center, Helem's work has consistently broken new ground in a country that criminalizes homosexuality and where violence and abuse are persistent problems. We applaud their courage and commitment to human rights for all."

"We are very proud to accept the Felipa Award from IGLHRC," Helem board member Shadi Ghrawi said in a statement. "It's a great honor to be selected. We hope it will help advance the struggle for human rights for LGBTI people in Lebanon and throughout the Middle East."

The Felipa Award will be presented to Helem's coordinator, George Azzi, on March 30 in New York and on April 2 in San Francisco, California.

Among Helem's primary activities is a campaign to have Article 534, which criminalizes homosexuality under "unnatural sexual intercourse," removed from the Lebanese penal code. Activists claim the article is used to intimidate the LGBTI community, and those convicted under it can spend up to one year in prison. According to Helem, abolishing Article 534 would "help reduce state and societal persecution and pave the way to achieving equality for the LGBT community in Lebanon."

Helem also offers free and anonymous 15-minute HIV tests to the general public while advocating the rights of HIV positive individuals.

News of Helem's award comes two months after the group's vocal criticism against the violent assault of two gay men by members of the Lebanese Armed Forces in Beirut's Sassine Square area. Soldiers found the two men embracing in the lobby of an abandoned building and dragged them into the street and beat them. "One, half naked, was even exhibited to bystanders  ... just for fun," said a statement by Helem in late January.

According to the group, the men were detained at a military barracks and were handed over to the civil authorities, who continue to detain them. "It is high time that the country's lawmakers looked at an obsolete, ridiculous law that condemns and punishes homosexuality in Lebanon," Helem said of Article 534. "At a time when gay marriage is permitted in many countries, the [Lebanese] authorities hypocritically deny the simplest expression of reality that they will have to face one day or another."

 

Father Kennedy has been sacked for challenging traditional Catholic Church practices by changing rituals, allowing women to preach and blessing gay couples.

Father Kennedy said he felt betrayed by the archbishop but conceded that the parish he has led for 28 years was out of line with the teachings of the church. "We have broken liturgical rules," he said yesterday. "We have treated people as adults, we have embraced gay and lesbian people, we have women coming into our community to preach."

He said his liturgies were still valid. "We celebrate in a way that is relevant to Australian Catholics, rather than toeing the line in Rome."

Father Ken Howell will take over St Mary's tomorrow as an administrator and has said he wants to work towards healing.

Father Kennedy will not go quietly — he plans to say Mass at 9am on Sunday and expects 1000 people to turn up. But he has backed away from threats that he would form a breakaway church. "I don't wish to do that. We argue but we are very much within the Catholic tradition."

Instead, he will formally appeal against the archbishop's decision, and until the matter is resolved he will continue attending St Mary's.

Father Kennedy's supporters were distraught at his sacking and predicted it would destroy the good work he has done.

"People see this as the end of the community as we know it," a spokeswoman for the parish, Karyn Walsh, said.

It is refreshing to see members of the Catholic Church taking a stand against the discrimination against women and LGBT people.  I know that there have been quite a number of people trying to work within the frame work of the RCC to effect change, especially in regards to the ordination of women priests. 

I cannot understand how the RCC can justify not allowing women clergy.  The only justification I can see is that they are misusing Christian scripture to keep their church as an "all boys club." 

The RCC generally claims that Christian scripture and its interpretation is always alive and fluid; as we continue to understand the world and as our culture shifts in positive directions, then scripture should be reassessed and possibly reinterpreted.

 

If this did not occur then the RCC would still:

Forbid banks to charge interest on loans.

Be in favour of slavery.

Believe that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

Not accept evolution

Not accept democracy.

And the list goes on.

 

The interpretation of the Christian Bible and homosexuality also needs to be reviewed by the RCC and many other churches.  There are plenty of interpretations around now to show that a committed same sex couple are not living in sin and deserve to have their relationship blessed by the church.

The only way the RCC will change its doctrine is if enough people start to challenge the RCC.

I wish Father Peter Kennedy and his supporters the best of luck in their endeavour to challenge the teachings of the RCC. 

The world needs more people like Father Peter Kennedy.

 

For more information on interpretation of Christian scripture in regards to both women clergy and LGBT people in the church see these websites:

 

The ordination of women in the Roman Catholic Church

 

A Letter to Louise - A Biblical Affirmation of Homosexuality

 

Fortunate Families

 

Homosexuality

 

 

 

   

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Hell we have to blame someone for all of the wrongs and the natural disasters in the world so it may as well be the gays and their evil ways. 

Then if not we can blame the Jews, the blacks, the Muslims, the elderly, the sick, the poor, the atheists, the Catholics, the liberals, the socialists, the communists, the intellectuals, the artists, the gypsies, the ......., the ......., the ......., the ........ oh to hell with it, I will let you fill in the gaps.

Come on Australia we shouldn't be lagging behind the world on this matter.  We are a secular society and one of the most secular in the world.

I know this will be a slow process but it just seems so simple to me.

In the main religious views seem to prevent same sex marriages from becoming lawful as it seems religious groups are the ones who get most irate when this subject is raised.

So if we are living in a secular society it is totally beyond me why we can't at least have civil marriages conducted by celebrants or other non-religious people who are permitted to conduct such a service.  Then let those churches who are against same sex marriage catch up when they have sorted their views out amongst themselves.  There will at least be some church organisations willing to conduct same sex marriages in their church if a couple wish to be married in a church.

Actually I was thinking about this cult a few days ago when I ran across an interesting video and I was going to post it and then this article came up and I thought that it tied in rather well.

For those who are not familiar with "The Chaser Team", they are an Aussie crew who have a comedy show called, "The Chaser's War on Everything."  There is virtually no where they will not go to stir people up, sometimes they go a bit too far, but quite often the people they send up and 'antagonise' do deserve it.

So this time around they decided to have a go at the Westboro Baptist Church.  It was actually rather intriguing because the way they went about tackling the cult during a protest, could in fact be an effective disarming tactic.  Either engage them in conversation about their 'religion' or start 'chatting' the members up, hopefully they will be so busy discussing their religion or fending off the advancements of admirers, that they will not be able to effectively protest.

Anyway good luck to those who plan on having their own protest against the WBC on the 30th March.  I hope it goes smoothly.  Obviously it won't stop the WBC from continuing to do what they do, but I think if carried out in the right manner it will be good for those who just want to have some sort of a feeling of justice. 

I wonder if the WBC members will be around for the protest, they might go into hiding, let's see what they are really made of.

And still the message goes out to young people that who they are is not who they should be, creating self hatred, depression, guilt, shame, isolation and some times leading them to suicide. The cycle continues because we in the Christian community allow it to continue by making LGBT people feel that they have to change to be accepted as a whole person in the eyes of God, the church and the wider community ............

 

 

At least I now don't feel quite so alone as a Christian speaking out, there are others who are speaking out and regrettably they are experiencing the penalty from other Christians for doing so .............

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I would like to say this to finish off.  Yes once again I am putting forward my liberal/leftist and some would say heretical views, but I am afraid that I can't help it, as you see I was indoctrinated at a very early age to have these types of views.  I was taught to love one another, to stand up for those who are persecuted, to help the needy and the disadvantaged, to welcome the outsider.  Yes I was taught about some special man who used to talk to crowds on hillsides and on beaches and any where else people would gather to hear him.  I believed that what I was being taught was the truth and this man was an example of how we should conduct ourselves throughout our lives.  The indoctrination process was very effective, as I still believe it is the right way to live. So if you have a problem with my views, then blame my mother for taking me to church every Sunday from the age of four, because that is where I learnt about some guy called Jesus who told people that the greatest commandment is love and every other commandment hinges on that commandment. I guess I must have missed the Sundays when the congregation was taught to condemn and hate those who are different to ourselves - I am glad I missed those Sundays, I am better for it.

Like I said I am not going to debate this issue because for me there is nothing to debate. 

Oppression and persecution of LGBT people is wrong and that is all there is to it.

 

Just some extra informative videos if any one is interested.

These two videos are worth watching.  There are a number of excellent speakers and one of the speakers actually mentions the 'research' project that was done to see if ex-gay therapy worked and how the ex-gay movement has high jacked and falsified the results.

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The other side of the ex-gay movement; the broken families.  Ex-gay movements quite often tell gay people to marry a heterosexual partner as a part of the changing process from being gay to being 'ex-gay'.  Then eventually the 'ex-gay' person can no longer keep up the pretence of being an ex-gay and feels compelled to be true to themselves and their family and leave their 'heterosexual' marriage.

 

 

 

 

If You Are a spouse dealing with this issue, and need support please visit: www.straightspouse.org

I know Ellen got it right when she said the following:

"A boy has been killed and a number of lives have been ruined. And, somewhere along the line the killer, Brandon, got the message that it's so threatening, so awful, and so horrific that Larry would want to be his Valentine -- that killing Larry seemed to be the right thing to do. And when the message out there is so horrible that to be gay, you can get killed for it, we need to change the message. Larry was not a second-class citizen. I am not a second-class citizen. It's ok if you're gay."

We really do have to wonder where a teenage boy gets the message from that a person should be killed just for being gay.

Sadly one of the places a person learns such a thing is from various religions.  I have seen far too many hateful comments left on blogsites, YouTube and various other websites to ignore the message of hate that is all too often being delivered by people who proclaim to belong to religions of love. 

It is time people started thinking for themselves and stop hiding their bigotry or ignorance behind their so called religious dogma.   If you really do believe you belong to a religion of love then your task is easy, if you really do have love in your heart then there is no way that you can continue to use your religion to persecute people - it is impossible to persecute anyone if you have love in your heart..

Religion was used to justify slavery, justify segregation, justify the oppression of women (still doing so in some religions/doctrines) and it is still being used to justify the oppression of gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals and transgender people and it is wrong.

I am actually past debating this issue, because as far as I am concerned it is insulting and dehumanising to any LGBT person to even have to have this debate.   As Ellen said:  "Larry was not a second-class citizen. I am not a second-class citizen. It's ok if you're gay."

If you proclaim that you are a Christian and you can't see that oppressing and persecuting LGBT people is wrong, then please take the time to look around on the internet as there is plenty of information around to help you read scripture in a new light when it comes to LGBT people and Christianity.

I approached this subject initially with love. I couldn't reconcile what I had been taught in a Christian church about Jesus/love and the persecution of LGBT people by far too many in the Christian church and also that many others in these churches weren't speaking out against this persecution.

What was happening to LGBT was against everything that I thought the Christian church stood for, so I did a lot of reading of the 'clobber' scriptures and their historical context and it was so blatantly obvious to me that these scriptures do not relate to any gay person in a loving committed relationship.

Yes scripture states that promiscuity is a 'sin' but it is just as much a sin if you are heterosexual or gay, there is no distinction. Being gay doesn't automatically make a person promiscuous, that assumption is a false stereotype that seems to once again be portrayed far too often to clobber LGBT people.

If you are not sure where to start looking for alternative information regarding Christianity and homosexuality here are some links to get you started:

 

NO LONGER SILENT – Clergy for Justice

 

Metropolitan Community Churches

 

The Bible and Homosexuality

 

 

Homosexuality: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness

 

 

What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality pdf

A Letter to Louise - A Biblical Affirmation of Homosexuality

If you don't believe there is a message of hate coming from Christianity then just take a look for yourselves.  It is time for people to really speak out about this issue.............

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.Continued in Part 2

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One of the best discussions in terms of Christianity and being gay I have heard was in the following discussion which included Bishop Gene Robinson.

Gays and God

Gene Robinson, Episcopal bishop
Steven Greenberg, rabbi
Zina Jacque, Baptist minister
Cheryl Giles, moderator
Diane Moore, moderator

Most LGBT feel alienated from the religions of their childhood. Either having abandoned their birthright traditions, or feeling the need to challenge those traditions, they are in a peculiar position among people of faith.

Will America's churches, synagogues, and other traditional religious institutions ever accept homosexuality?

Religious writings have been used as the word of God and a political tool. What role will they play in this election year? The panelists here explore these and other issues relating to what it means to be moral, sexual humans in our society.

This panel discussion is presented by the Harvard Institute of Politics.

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What really impressed me above all else was their sense of humanity and humility which seems to be lacking when I listen to many Christians.  For me these three gay religious teachers gave a real sense of what Christianity and Judaism should be about, and that is love, acceptance and compassion.  In my opinion if there were more religious people such as these either gay or straight, the world would be a much better place.

On another note I have mentioned this organisation before but I think it is worth mentioning again.

Fortunate Families

Grounded in Catholic tradition, Fortunate Families ministers primarily with Catholic parents of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender daughters and sons—but welcomes families of all faiths. When parents explore and value their personal stories, they are empowered to share that story with their family circle, their faith community and the larger society. 

Parents just learning that a son is gay or a daughter is lesbian will find resources—including the Fortunate Families Newsletter—and support to help them understand, accept, and affirm their child who is a child of God. Catholic parents will find information regarding Church teaching and pastoral responses to the gay or lesbian child. Parents of lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender daughters and gay sons who yearn for a more welcoming church and society will find strategies for making their faith communities and their world safer and more just for their children.

Grounded in Catholic tradition, Fortunate Families welcomes families of all faiths.

At the moment this group is releasing some fantastic information leaflets on a weekly basis titled:

Let’s Talk About Homosexuality I have currently read the first 4 weeks and I was impressed with the series so far, hopefully the remaining modules will be just as interesting and impressive.

Let’s Talk About Homosexuality

A Catholic conversation for:

• Parents of gay and lesbian children: parents still in the closet, alone with their secret; parents out of the closet, struggling with their questions, their fears, their faith.

• Parents of young children: moms and dads seeking information and insight for their own parenting role as teacher and counselor.

• Family members who may be struggling to deal with the hurtful stereotypes that exist within both society and their Church.

• Gay and lesbian people who may be searching for some sign of understanding from their Church.

• Anyone who is curious about homosexuality and wanting to learn more.
 

The series, originally created as an adult education program and carried for 14 weeks on the website of a Midwest Catholic parish, is intended for anyone interested in learning more about homosexuality and the pastoral challenges it raises for Catholics.  Click to read how and why Jerry Furlong, parent of a gay child, came to develop the series.

A new segment in the series will be posted on seven consecutive Mondays following the January 7th introduction. After the complete series has been posted, it will be archived for future access. 

Week 1: Common Questions about Homosexuality  Now available.
The Basic Stuff
Scientific Perspectives

Week 2: Common Questions about Homosexuality  Now available.
Social Perspectives
Family Perspectives

Week 3: Putting a Human Face on Homosexuality  Now available.
Parents Talk of Their Experience

Week 4: Putting a Human Face on Homosexuality  Now Available.
Gay and Lesbian Persons Talk of Their Experience

Week 5: Moral and Pastoral Considerations  Now available.
What the Church Teaches

Week 6: Moral and Pastoral Considerations  To be posted February 11
Other Catholic Voices: So What Are We To Do?
The Role of Conscience

Week 7: Moral and Pastoral Considerations  To be posted February 18
Other Catholic Voices: Shared Thoughts on Vatican Documents

Week 8: Moral and Pastoral Considerations  To be posted February 25
Other Catholic Voices:
The Question of “Finality”
“A Biblical Understanding”
Can Teaching Change?
One Last Question

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I would also recommend this book if you are a gay Christian.  I know that many mainstream Christians will not agree with its interpretations, but scripture is supposed to be living and interpretation is not fixed despite what we are continually told and interpretation is influenced by certain prejudices.

 

Gay Christian 101

 

Read what others have said about this book.

The full story of the destroyed city of Sodom. The scripture and the deceptions by the church we don’t seem to see or we are not shown by the church itself or by the better educated people in Bible verse.

 

A comment from my previous post said I had left out the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, actually I did and I didn’t.  I quoted the relevant place to find it i.e. “Gn 19:1-11” I just didn’t quote the actual written text or comment on it.  One reason was because I knew it was a long passage and the other was to do the passage justice I would have to spend a lot of time on this text.  However, I have decided to comment on it because I need to as this text is used quite often to damn gay people and the text is actually taken out of context.  What I didn’t realise I would discover is how many lives have been killed because of that passage.  The further I looked the more disgusted I became.  The more ashamed I became that I call myself a Christian.  I am not exaggerating how this has shaken the very foundation of what I believe.  It now past 2am in the morning and I should be asleep but I can’t sleep, because of the story and its destruction through the middle ages and beyond. I had posted this as a comment but I am about to turn this into its own post because this is a story that seldom gets told and it needs to be told and it needs to be spread.  So if this post seems long, I apologise for that, but please try to get through to the end or at least start from “This Bible passage explains why Sodom was destroyed” and continue to the end.  So here is the truth.

 

 

 

We never hear the real story and the real story has more than one story line to it, but we just don’t see them, all we are shown are the wicked acts of the men of Sodom and these acts are said to be male to male sexual intercourse and that is why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed.  The real reason these cities were destroyed is more than what is told in Genesis, but you are never shown the real reasons by the people with their anti-Gay agenda, but I will and so will the Bible.

 

 

This is the text that is always quoted by those against gay men.

Genesis 19:1-11 KJV: And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

Now there is the story line that the men of Sodom are wicked and they wanted to have their way with the new men in town.  But I don’t know why many people seem to overlook the fact that Lot was about to give up his daughters to these wicked men so that the men could have their way with them i.e. rape them.  If these girls were to be raped they would lose their virginity and find it difficult to find a male partner ever again and they actually had two men who they were due to marry, but those men in those times would not have married them after being raped due to the girl’s disgrace.  Quite frankly it is possible that after being raped they may have been stoned to death.

 

So the real story is the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, plus the story of Lot

But the story of Lot is never pointed out by those with a different agenda. The story of Lot is very significant as far as a teaching from the Bible.  Lot chose to live near Sodom for selfish reasons and always chose the easiest course of action generally at the expense of doing the right thing.  Lot mainly thought of himself when he made decisions.  By trying to be accepted by the people of his adopted homeland Sodom, he was prepared to sacrifice his two daughters.  The result of Lot’s selfishness and greed was the ruin of his family and the loss of his fortune.  He witnessed his wife’s death for her disobedience to God, a disobedience Lot had modeled for her.  His daughter’s followed Lot’s example too.  They used drunkenness, seduction and incest with their father, the quickest and easiest means available to overcome their lonely childless state brought on by their father’s actions.

The lessons from the full text are:

If we live for comfort and wealth, they will come between us and our families.

We must take care of our responsibilities to God and people if we want our lives to be successful.

Mistakes made by parents often lead to similar mistakes by their children.

When we put our desires for wealth and comfort before obedience to God, the results will be destructive.

For the story of Lot in this context you need to read:

Genesis 13

Genesis 14

Genesis 18: 16 – 33

Genesis 19

 

This Bible passage explains why Sodom was destroyed:

God is disgusted by the unfaithful of Jerusalem and compares Jerusalem to Sodom.

Ezekiel 16: 49 – 50. KJV. Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

Ezekiel 16: 44 – 58. NIV " 'Everyone who quotes proverbs will quote this proverb about you: "Like mother, like daughter." You are a true daughter of your mother, who despised her husband and her children; and you are a true sister of your sisters, who despised their husbands and their children. Your mother was a Hittite and your father an Amorite. Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom. You not only walked in their ways and copied their detestable practices, but in all your ways you soon became more depraved than they. As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.

 

Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. Samaria did not commit half the sins you did. You have done more detestable things than they, and have made your sisters seem righteous by all these things you have done. Bear your disgrace, for you have furnished some justification for your sisters. Because your sins were more vile than theirs, they appear more righteous than you. So then, be ashamed and bear your disgrace, for you have made your sisters appear righteous.

 

'However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them, so that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all you have done in giving them comfort. And your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, will return to what they were before; and you and your daughters will return to what you were before. You would not even mention your sister Sodom in the day of your pride, before your wickedness was uncovered. Even so, you are now scorned by the daughters of Edom and all her neighbors and the daughters of the Philistines—all those around you who despise you. You will bear the consequences of your lewdness and your detestable practices, declares the LORD.

The full chapter can be found here

As you can see the reason that Sodom was destroyed was for many reasons and not just actions related to “Men knowing each other” and at one point in time Jerusalem’s actions were even seen in God’s eyes as worse than the city of Sodom.

Sodom is also mentioned in other contexts as well, as an example to others for not listening to the words of Jesus and his disciples.  These towns or homes were considered worse than the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Matthew 10:12-15 NIV. As you enter the home, give it your greeting. If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

 

 

Matthew 11:20-24 NIV.  Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgement than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.  But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."

 

I believe a huge injustice has been done to gay men in this case, because generally the destruction of Sodom has been largely blamed on “men knowing each other”.  I am not an expert of the Bible but I bet the Christians who throw the Sodom and Gomorrah story around, know about these other pieces of scripture in the bible, but they choose not to bring it to our attention. 

The scripture from Ezekiel is not an easy piece to find as I don’t think Ezekiel is a well quoted book of the Bible, I could be wrong, but it isn’t a book which immediately springs to mind when one thinks of the Bible.  It shows how strong the association with Sodom and male gay sex is when the name given to anal sex and other ‘immoral’ sex acts is sodomy i.e. “sin of Sodom”.  But in reality there were many sins of Sodom. 

But it gets worse when we look at how the meaning of the scripture from Ezekiel becomes distorted through the ages and we see the ramifications.

The thirteenth-century Jewish scholar Nachmanides wrote this in regards to the destruction of Sodom, “According to our sages, they were notorious for every evil, but their fate was sealed for their persistence in not supporting the poor and the needy.” His contemporary Rabbenu Yonah expresses the same view: “Scripture attributes their annihilation to their failure to practice tzedakah [charity or justice].” (Source)

The Book of Wisdom, which is included in the Bible by Orthodox and Roman Catholics, but excluded by modern Jews, Protestants, and other Christian denominations, makes reference to the story of Sodom, further emphasizing that their sin had been failing to practice hospitability:

Wisdom 19:13 14 KJV. And punishments came upon the sinners not without former signs by 
the force of thunders: for they suffered justly according to their own wickedness, insomuch as they 
used a more hard and hateful behaviour toward strangers. For the Sodomites did not receive 
those, whom they knew not when they came: but these brought friends into bondage, that had 
well deserved of them. 

 

Here is where it starts to go down hill.  I am totally disgusted by this.

The primarily sexual meaning of the word sodomia for Christians did not evolve before the 500s AD. Byzantine Emperor Justinian I, in his novels no. 77 and no. 141 amended to his Corpus iuris civilis, was the first to declare that Sodom's sin had been specifically same-sex activities and desire for them in order to create homosexual scapegoats for recent earthquakes and other disasters of his time (535-536CE).

 

NOVEL 71

…since certain men, seized by diabolical incitement practice among themselves the most disgraceful lusts, and act contrary to nature: we enjoin them to take to heart the fear of God and the judgment to come, and to abstain from suchlike diabolical and unlawful lusts, so that they may not be visited by the just wrath of God on account of these impious acts, with the result that cities perish with all their inhabitants. For we are taught by the Holy Scriptures that because of like impious conduct cities have indeed perish, together with all the men in them.

#1: …For because of such crimes [not clear if this means just blasphemies or homosexual practices as well] there are famines, earthquakes, and pestilences; wherefore we admonish men to abstain from the aforesaid unlawful acts, that they may not loose their souls. But if, after this our admonition any are found persisting in such offenses, first they render themselves unworthy of the mercy of God, and then they are subjugated to the punishment enjoined by law…………….

NOVEL 141

#1: For, instructed by the Holy Scriptures, we know that God brought a just judgment upon those who lived in Sodom, on account of this very madness of intercourse, so that to this very day that lands burns with inextinguishable fire……………………. (Source)

 

Benedictus Levita and the ''Pseudo-Isidore

Justinian's interpretation of the story of Sodom would be forgotten today (as it had been along with his law novellizations regarding homosexual behavior immediately after his death) had it not been made use of in fake Charlemagnian capitularies, fabricated by a Frankish monk using the pseudonym Benedictus Levita ("Benedict the Levite") around 850 CE. Benedict's three capitularies particularly dealing with Justinian's interpretation of the story of Sodom were:

''XXI. De diversis malorum flagitiis.'' ("No. 21: On manifold disgraceful wrongs")

''CXLIII. De sceleribus nefandis ob quae regna percussa sunt, ut penitus caveantur.'' ("No. 143: On sinful vices due to which empires have crumbled, so that we shall do our best to beware of them")

''CLX. De patratoribus diversorum malorum.'' ("No. 160: On the perpetrators of manifold evil deeds")

The first two documents warned that homosexuality imperiled the existence of the kingdom and the church. Because of sins against nature, cities had been consumed by heavenly fire and 40, 000 Benjamites put to sword.   The third document construed the Saracen invasion as God’s punishment for sin; it called for the Roman penalty of burning at the stake to be returned for cases of sodomy.   These fake capitularies turned ‘sodomites’ and other violators of Christian sexual moral behaviour into traitors who bring on invasions and threaten the survival of the Kingdom and no penalty could be too severe.

Benedict broadened the meaning for ''sodomy'' to all sexual acts not related to procreation that were therefore deemed ''counter nature'' (so for instance, even solitary masturbation and anal intercourse between a male and a female were covered), while among these he still emphasized all interpersonal acts not taking place between human men and women, especially homosexuality.

Benedict's rationale was that the punishment of such acts was in order to protect all Christianity from divine punishments such as natural disasters for carnal sins committed by individuals, but also for heresy, superstition and heathenry.

(Source 1) and (Source 2 pg 253 and 254)

So where did all of this eventually lead?  This rational lead to the Medieval Inquistion, herecticism and the hunting of witches.  This lead to genocide on a grand and tortuous level, all of this from one piece of scripture which was possibly manipulated in interpretation and by exclusion of the full text.

The use of the Charlemagnian capitularies were slow to take off.  One reason was because such capital punishment had never been heard of before in Roman Catholic Church history. As the Charlemagnian capitularies seemed to go against the humane Christian concept of forgiveness and mercy, it took several centuries before Benedict's demands for legal reform began to take tangible shape within larger ecclesiastical initiatives.

But in the end the humane Christian concept was cast aside and so began the Medieval Inquisition in 1184. A convenient target were the Cathars and Waldensians , and these ‘heretics’ were not only persecuted for alleged satanism but hence increasingly accused of fornication and sodomy.  The Cathars and Waldensians had their foundings in Christianity but they had a different point of view than the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) and they were seen as a threat.

Plague and the consequent decline in population was seen to be caused by homosexuality. Homosexuality, bestiality and ‘unnatural’ sexual intercourse were linked to starvation, pestilence, and other natural disasters.  By the mid 13^th century sodomites and heretics were both the target of the inquisition and seen as threats to Christian society.

 

Once the Cathars and the Waldensians where eliminated the RCC needed a new target and so began the Witch Hunts.  It has been argued that the witch hunts and the persecution of homosexuals was based on morality. However in the years when there were no plague witches and homosexual men were sent to trial less often than in years of plague.  Also the numbers sent to trial were far more for witches than homosexuals for example in non—plague years witches were tried in 46% of those years and in the same years homosexual men only 15%.  It appears that during the times of the witch hunts women were more likely to be the scapegoats as opposed to ‘sexual deviant’ men. (The Path of the Devil early: Modern Witch Hunts page 162 - 164)

A demonstration of the RCC link between heresy and sodomy is the term “buggery”.  Buggery is a corruption of bourrerie a reference to the Albigensians whose religious sect called the Bogomiles were said to have come from Bulgeria and this sect was persecuted by the RCC as a sect of heretics. (Literary Visions of Homosexuality pg 116).

Ever wondered where the word “fagot” a derogatory name given to homosexuals is derived from?  Fagot is the name of the collection of sticks that were piled up beneath and around the heretic’s feet and legs and then set on fire as the victim slowly burnt a slow agonising death.

Eymeric, who had been the inquisitor General in Catalonia wrote his manual in 1376.  It became a standard guide for procedure throughout the 16^th and 17^th centuries and made sweeping claims for papal authority. In questions of morals all people were subject to the judgement of the church and the power of the pope extended over all men.  It was said that the pope had the ability to punish any heathen violating natural law.  The proof according to Eymeric was God punishing the people of Sodom who sinned against natural law (Gen 19). He went on to say, “Now the judgments of our God are our examples!  Consequently why should the pope not proceed if he has the means, as God proceeds!”  This assertion claimed papal power of life and death over sodomites, not only in Christian Europe but in lands of other faith not yet discovered.  Eymeric justified the sanctions based on the story of Sodom. 

The papacy did not always see fit to exercise its theoretical right to try sodomites through its inquisitors.  Sometimes the task was delegated and other times it was not.  In Spain in1505 a decree was granted to try sodomites as part of the inquisition.  In 1524 a heresy charge was unable to stick to the grandson of a converted Jew whose name was Sancho, so the inquisition tribunal charged him with sodomy and sought permission from Pope Clement VII to try Sancho for sodomy and the permission was granted.  Three tribunals in different regions were given permission to charge sodomites.  Clement then associated sodomy with the Moors claiming the horrendous crime of sodomy had begun to spread through this group of people.  The precedent was well and truly set, there were campaigns against Jews, relapsed Moorish converts, and Protestant heretics and if they couldn’t try them for heresy they were tried for sodomy.  In 1571 the Saragrossa tribunal was told, “In sodomy trials prisoners should not be promised mercy.” The hint was understood and the arrests increased.  The charge of bestiality was also included as a charge with the same ramifications as sodomy.  The next year 12 men were burned at the stake simultaneously three for sodomy and the others for bestiality.  Going by Old Testament law the ‘guilty’ beasts were also burnt.  The Holy officers found it difficult to find enough wood to burn them all simultaneously.

In the period 1570 to 1630 execution for sodomy in the crown of Aragon outnumbered those for heresy. All told about 400 men were tried in three districts and 70 were executed for sodomy. The Spanish Inquisition was probably responsible for executing 100 men for sodomy in this region.  The civil courts also executed a similar number under laws inspired by religion.  In the 16^th and 17^th century in Spain it appears that the number of men burnt for homosexuality outnumbered the number of protestant heretics. The number of men who endured harsh treatment due to claims of sodomy exceeds those actually executed by about 4 or 5 times.  This period is one of the worst periods in RCC history.  The secular justice was also severe during this time, but the significant difference is how the RCC used the executions (Autos) as a form of calculated terror of its citizens.  Autos were huge spectaculars, with mass audiences almost like a sporting event.  To reinforce the real aim of these Autos we have the following extract, which was approved by Pope Gregory XIII, “We must remember that the chief purpose of the trial and the death sentence is not to save the soul of the accused but to promote the public good and to terrorize the people [ut alli terreantyr]” From 1540 to 1700 there were 44, 000 trials. (Homosexuality & Civilization pg 294 – 299)

 

The association of ''sodomy'' with hereticism, satanism, and witchcraft was supported by the Inquisition trials. The resulting infamity of sodomy motivated a continuing discrimination and persecution of homosexuals and sexual deviants in general long after the Medieval period had ended.

In Europe, Spain was the fiercest foe against homosexuality followed by, France and Italy and it was rare in England but laws did exist.  Countries such as Denmark, Russia, and Sweden were virtually lacking any law or discrimination against “sodomites’. Denmark had its first prosecution in 1744. In Sweden there were none before 1600 and very few after.  Russia was quite open about male/male relationships in the 1600 and 1700s, and did not have a sodomy law until 1832.

England lived in a state of denial, “Not in our country” and the name of the act was not even spoken.  In 1628 John Harris preached about the fall of Sodom before the House of Commons but made only the briefest hint of sodomy, Harris assured his listeners that the sin not fit to be named had been kept out of England by the hand of God.  Those familiar with the court of James I who had died three years earlier must have been smiling to themselves.  So for two centuries the denial of the unspoken sin would not be a cause for concern as it was un-British.  There were no records of sodomy trials in England in the 14^th and 15^th century.  In 1533 Henry VIII introduced the “buggery” law which was punishable by hanging. (Homosexuality & Civilisation pg 361 362)

The law was amended in 1828 to be a prison sentence and dropped as a crime if the act was between two consenting adults in 1967.

 

So that is the history of the early church persecution of homosexuals.  It is not nice, it is an abomination!  If we look at the verse from Ezekiel 16: 49 – 50

 

'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me.

 

 

There are a number of reasons Sodom was destroyed the last one being they did detestable things which we can interpret as immoral sex acts based on the quote from Genesis.  However there are a number of interpretations which have said the main reason for Sodam’s destruction was due to their persistence in not supporting the poor and the needy.  Now even if that interpretation is not accurate, then we know for sure that Sodom was destroyed because they were arrogant, overfed, and selfish, didn’t help the poor and needy and did immoral acts.  Now I don’t see anyone being killed or persecuted for any of those other acts, just one.  In fact I will be so bold to say, very often we couldn’t care a less if people are not doing all of those other good deeds, the deeds which I believed was part of being a Christian.  But you know what given the amount of time and energy and hatred put into persecuting LGBT people and other minorities I obviously have got Christianity totally screwed up.  There is a passage 1 John 4: 7-21 titled “God’s Love and Ours”, well you could have fooled me that is what Christianity is all about.  Lately all I see is hatred, bigotry, selfishness, and people more worried about other people’s business than sorting their own crap out.

 

I am absolutely appalled that Christians quote that Sodom and Gomorrah quote in Genesis with only one reason and that is to discriminate against gay people, they NEVER also say, “Hey but wait there is more, there is a passage that actually explains why God destroyed Sodom.  Oh and by the way there are some references in Matthew as well, which have got nothing to do with sodomy.”

 

Today we don’t burn gay people at the stake, but we are just as discriminatory and we use our Bible as our weapon.

 

Some Churches are definitely homophobic despite what they say to the contrary.

 

Homosexual issues came in as number 4 in the top 10 list of concerns/news – Christian Post.

What are Christians so afraid of if they allow open gay people into their church or have a marriage ceremony.  Do we really believe just like in medieval times that famine, drought, hurricanes and climate change are ALL to do with giving people Gay Rights?

 

As for the Catholic Church well this is what it has to say in its “Catechism of the Catholic Church”:

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

 

Well except for the ‘disordered’ part it sounds very nice, if only it were true.

 

So this is part of Pope Benedict XVI main message of Peace on the World Day of Peace:

 

"Whoever, even unknowingly, circumvents the institution of the family undermines peace in the entire community, national and international, since he weakens what is in effect the primary agency of peace," Benedict said Tuesday, quoting from his annual peace message to world leaders.

 

Yes well thank you for your inclusive message of peace and we know who one of the ‘whoever’s are and to say that people wanting the entitlement to have a same sex marriage or even legal rights for same sex de-facto relationships are a threat to world peace is an outrageous thing to say.  Two people want to have a loving committed relationship and they are a threat to world peace!

 

So as you can guess I am angry.  I am angry at the fact that a church used a piece of scripture to kill torture and terrorise countless people.  Yes that was the past but it is still happening just in a more covert way.  I am angry that I was never told about that piece of scripture in Ezekiel that should be noted in some way when the Sodom scripture in Genesis is read.  Yes I have read the entire Bible, twice in fact but not recently so I would have forgotten that important quote, but I have heard the Sodom quote more times than I could ever remember.  I am angry that people use that piece of scripture from Genesis and never say anymore except the hell and damnation and abomination part they like to add on.

 

This is what the younger generation are saying:

 

Young Americans today are more skeptical and resistant to Christianity than were people of the same age just a decade ago, claimed a new study this year.

Negative perceptions toward the Christian faith have outweighed the positive as a growing percentage of younger Americans associate with a faith outside Christianity.

Only 16 percent of non-Christians aged 16 to 29 years old said they have a "good impression" of Christianity, according to a report released in September by The Barna Group. A decade ago, the vast majority of Americans outside the Christian faith, including young people, felt favorably toward Christianity’s role in society.

Criticism, furthermore, was not limited to young people outside the Christian faith. Half of young churchgoers said they perceive Christianity to be judgmental, hypocritical and too political. Also, one-third said it was old-fashioned and out of touch with reality.

Among other common impressions, 23 percent of young non-Christians said "Christianity is changed from what it used to be" and "Christianity in today's society no longer looks like Jesus." Young born-again Christians were just as likely to say the same (22 percent).

Young Christians largely criticized the church, saying it has made homosexuality a "bigger sin" than anything else and that the church has not helped them apply the biblical teaching on homosexuality to their friendships with gays and lesbians.

"I think for a long time, the church just hasn't known how to talk about homosexuality," commented Scott Davis director of Exodus Youth, part of the evangelical ministry Exodus International that deals with the issue of homosexuality. "They've been very uncomfortable with the topic.”

"So when they do talk about it, they tend to talk about just the moral side of whether it's right or wrong without any real understanding of where people are coming from – so it comes across as very harsh," he explained.

AMEN